Estelle Read on Chaos to Creation Confessions: Are you on the “screw up and repeat” treadmill?

Debbie Jenkins (00:05):
Today we’re talking to Estelle Read, a human potential coach. She works with the professional services industry with a variety of clients, ranging from PLCs through to small local companies, the common denominator for all of these being that they are looking to grow performance in some way. She describes herself as being supportive and challenging, you know, a little bit like the good cop, bad cop – tenacious. And you know, the thing that really sets her on fire is seeing her clients get results. She is practical, passionate, and loads of fun. And I’m so excited that she’s here today to talk to us. So Estelle, welcome and tell us, what are you working on at the moment?
Estelle Read (00:49):
I have just finished writing my book Inner Brilliance, Outer Shine, with your fabulous help.
Debbie Jenkins (01:02):
So tell us about the book. What did you do, how long have you been writing it?
Estelle Read (01:09):
When I was looking at this this morning, actually, and I was going to say 12 months, but actually it took seven months because we did quite a bit of plumbing. Didn’t we? In the early stages? Yes. But I finished it on the 22nd of December and then spent a couple of months editing it, which completely sucked the life out of me. It’s targeted at people who over work. So a bit of a workaholic and often they’ve got imposter syndrome going on in the background as well because it’s those, that belief system that drives the workaholism and gets people burnt out. And the reason I’ve written it is because it takes one to know one – that’s me.
Debbie Jenkins (02:06):
I think the best products, the best assets that people can create are the ones that resolve one of their own issues or their own problems. Cause you know it so intimately and you’ve been on that journey yourself. So you can write that journey for other people. So without going into detail of your own workaholism what’s your promise for readers of the book. What will they learn when they read your book?
Estelle Read (02:35):
Well, I take them through a journey really. So we begin with the right mindset because often when clients come and sit in the coaching chair, they come for help, but then they can get stopped in a pattern of behavior, which I refer to as ground hog day. So kind of screw up and repeat, screw up and repeat – early on in my coaching career, I got frustrated because we’d have a say a typical coaching conversation is what’s happening right now, position a what do you want instead? What’s the outcome. The coaching piece is how you get from A to B and they’d go off and come back the following months, having not changed a thing. The screw up and repeat pattern, the ground hog day led me to learn all sorts of different techniques. So like a lot of coaches, I became an NLP practitioner, master practitioner, trainer of NLP, hypnotherapists EFTer, blah, blah, blah.
Estelle Read (03:39):
And then I found something called Havening which not only changed my own life, but it changed the life of my clients. And so the book takes you on a journey to change your mindset. To get you in the right mindset away from one of the mindsets that people again, or traps that people fall into is victim mentality. So I talk about the Karpman Drama Triangle. You know, it’s always someone else’s fault. The blame is outside of them, whilst they’re in that mindset, they can’t fix their own problems. So we do a bit of mindset. Then we look at what are the limiting beliefs, behaviors, and feelings that are stopping them from getting to that position be because, and the reason the what’s called inner brilliance is that it’s the inner stuff that gets in the way of the outer results. So what we’re doing is we’re resolving the inner issues so that they get better outer results.
Estelle Read (04:44):
And so the next few chapters are focused on, we get personal, we talk about childhood, we talk about adverse childhood experiences, how these impact on our emotions, behaviors, and beliefs and the results that we’re getting. And then we get to the Havening chapter, which is where it’s like cheating and we wave a magic wand and because Havening is so easy to use. I mean, I’ve got a two minute video on it. That’s how easy it is to use. It’s simple, it’s easy, but it also generates this permanent change. And it’s based on research that was done by a doctor of neuroscience, a guy called Ron Ruden, who’s actually written the foreword for the book. So you use the technique yourself to clear the inner stuff. And then the latter half of the book is almost like a bit of a maintenance program.
Estelle Read (05:43):
So it’s maintaining that positive mindset. So how do you manage inner dialogue? How do you manage limiting emotions? I also cover EFT which is another amazing technique, emotional freedom technique, because a lot of my clients are executives or working in the professional services industry or HR directors. We look at personal effectiveness as well. So one of the things that can prevent us from shining, so that’s the outcome. That’s the transformation is that people are personally ineffective. So the other characteristic with this group of readers is that they’re often good eggs. They do loads of things for people, they put everybody else first, which plays havoc with a metaphoric production line and makes them personally ineffective. And then the final kind of maintenance chapter is you could do all of that stuff. So you go on that journey. And the idea is that you arrive at what I refer to as destination joy.
Estelle Read (06:55):
Often clients, when they come and sit in the coaching chair, they’re at destination grim through no fault of their own. We don’t, you know, we don’t set out to end up somewhere miserable. It just happens. We also do some vision setting and goal setting as well. You could go through this total journey, but if you don’t then look after what you put in your body that will also affect you as well. So the final chapter is about what, how you eat, how you sleep and how you move, because all of those things will affect state of mind and performance and how much you shine as well. So for example, a little bit of interesting research and a headline that got my attention was “donuts make you angry.” And I was like, really? It’s because of the saturated fat that’s in it, then that influences mood state. It can make us more aggressive. Imagine you’ve popped a donut in your mouth. You’re at work. You go into a board meeting, Mr. Angry comes out. So you could do all of that work and then fall at the final hurdle.
Debbie Jenkins (08:20):
That’s fantastic. So basically it’s a toolkit. You covered pretty much everything from the inside out so that you can shine. You have the outer shine. And you’re talking inside the whole you. So very holistic.
Estelle Read (08:39):
Yes. So you shine outwardly. I love it often. You know, when people, again, I keep pointing over there because that’s where my coaching chair is, when people come and sit in that chair and they’re not shining the shine has dulled.
Debbie Jenkins (09:01):
How would someone know they should read your book. What would they be thinking or feeling or doing right now that would make them know to read it.
Estelle Read (09:07):
But that’s a really interesting question because you and I have had this conversation, and I was having this chat with my husband and the summary was something along the lines of: “the book you don’t realize you need till you actually get into it.” The title might be a bit misleading in the Inner Brilliance, Outer Shine. Well, I’m doing amazing, you know I’m amazing at life because to be perfectly honest, the people I work with they’re in the top 5% of income earners. So they’re already amazingly successful and they reach a tipping point and that’s, so that could be the trigger and why they end up in my chair. So it might just be that everything has got too much work and life has got too much.
Estelle Read (10:02):
And they realize that they’re working really hard, and actually they’re at destination grim, they’re not enjoying themselves. So they’re kind of going, what is all of this about? So often Execs will talk about, look, I never switch off. I get home at night, I’m obsessed with my work and never enjoy the holidays. I’m not there for my family. Those are all warning signs that something needs to change. And it’s often the personal stuff, because again, when I’m working with clients, I’ll talk about life impacts work and work impacts life and they’re inextricably linked. And it might be that we’re making changes in life, but work will benefit and vice versa. And I’ve got one client and he’ll know if he listens to this podcast, you’ll know I’m talking about him. And, and he talks about being balanced. And feeling like himself. And he refers to the fact his partners talk about him being “Estelled”. And so there’s pre-Estelle and post-Estelleand post the intervention and it just feels balanced and able to just be. That links back to my business Beee.
Debbie Jenkins (11:27):
Yeah. I know personally the feeling of being “Estelled” and when you coach me for weeks afterwards there’s an impact that kind of follows me through. And then I find a little decay of that impact and I need to come back to you and then, but it’s building, it’s building, it’s building, I’m building my own inner brilliance so that I can be a better shiner! So for people listening, I want them to understand your creation process.
Debbie Jenkins (12:08):
Now I think of the creation process along these lines, so there’s the chaos that’s going on in the world and in your head and all the input things that you’re bringing in and the things you’re learning and your clients and all this is the input. And it’s kind of a chaotic thing.
Debbie Jenkins (12:23):
And you’re one of the least chaotic people I’ve ever worked with. So if you imagine in order to get to that creation, you know, a Minimum Valuable Asset for your business: a book or a course or a training program or whatever it is that you want to create at the end, you have to go through constraints and nobody wants to do the constraints. So, and that’s the process that is just, I wish I could make it so that wasn’t the process, but that’s how it is. So talk to me about your process from the chaos in your head, the constraints that you worked within, that you set upon yourself to get your creation, this book at the end of the day.
Estelle Read (13:04):
Well, the first confession is that it took me 10 years to write the sodding thing, and that was because of the constraints. And so 10 years ago started writing. I mean, I could even show you the writers yearbooks back in my cabinet for 2009, embarrassing! I started writing, did what you shouldn’t do shared it with some family members. One family member was really positive and another absolutely put me off – for life. And so that was an inner constraint. I felt like I was about five year old back at school. Oh, I can’t do this thing and had all sorts of limiting beliefs about being able to write. I found I would start writing and then I would stop because I’d get to a position where there was just too much chaos.
Estelle Read (14:10):
I have no sense of direction. Then there was that serendipitous moment where I was thinking about writing a book, you contacted me, we had our session. And I was like, Oh my God, this is the answer to my prayers. And you helped me sort through that chaos. And I’ll be honest. I don’t like chaos as you can probably tell. And you helped to provide me with systems. And I don’t know if you remember my old spreadsheets. Soyou know, I had to map everything out, but you me to do that with your thoughtful questions, I was looking at the client avatar again, just this morning and all of that helped. I’d got inner constraints, which were, I can’t do it. And the other belief I’ve got going on was I, I don’t have the time to write a book. And I thought it would take me 12 months. It didn’t need to be seven months. And so you absolutely can write a book. And I simply set aside one day, say simply it was a big light. I’m not going to do any work on Mondays other than writing, but it worked fine. Absolutely fine. And I’m trying to think what else I was going to mention now.
Debbie Jenkins (15:46):
So the spreadsheet that you came up with was fantastic and all of my clients do it slightly differently, but you know, I ask them the questions. I get them going. Some people might post it notes. Some people make notes, some people do a spreadsheet. Your spreadsheet was comprehensive. I was impressed. So what did you do after you? Cause I mean, a spreadsheet, people think spreadsheet writing a book, how do those two things go together? How did you get from that spreadsheet? Very ordered, organized and sort of bullets and lists to the creative process and writing. How did you do that leap because that structure to creation, how did you do that?
Estelle Read (16:57):
Well, Ithe spreadsheet was basically just a big mind dump about what I wanted to include in the book. You encouraged me to cut stuff out, which was brilliant and helped focus my mind. I don’t know if you can remember, I got completely obsessed about the title as well. I even had a titles page and then I got obsessed about, and I did all sorts of research with my beta readers and all that type of stuff. And then I got obsessed about the subtitle. That’s one thing I wouldn’t do again. With the spreadsheet once I’d done the mind dump, and I got an idea of which, where my research was going to go and all that type of thing. When it, I came to write a chapter, that was my focus, but was interesting is that the mind dump was probably the hardest part because sometimes I’d write my book kind of wouldn’t even look at what was in that spreadsheet because I’d already knew where I was going with it.
Estelle Read (18:04):
And actually that was some of my best writing where I was just free and, you know, seeing where it went. And there were the times when I completely ballsed it up. We’ got massive fat chapters. Like where the hell is this going? To create two chapters? And so it obviously got too much to say, and you never, you know, the beautiful thing about writing. You never know what’s going to come out of your head just as, I don’t know, what’s going to come out and now, you know, two sentences ahead. And that’s what I love about writing is that, you know, you just got to sit and let it flow, but sometimes that’s like you say, where you need your constraints.
Debbie Jenkins (18:48):
I think fabulous. Never know what’s going to come out of your head. And also you you’re you’re I love that you’re talking yourself into writing another book because you know, it’s like, I think of writing, it’s kind of cathartic and therapeutic, but it’s also, it’s a way of organizing the thoughts in your head so that other people can understand what’s going on in the crazy that’s happening in your head, in the chaos that’s in your head and writing is sometimes you don’t even know what you think until you’ve written it.
Estelle Read (19:19):
Yeah, exactly. And it also helps, you know, your business, if you’re a consultant or a coach or, you know, that process in the book is a process I’ve been using for donkey’s years. Well, I’ve never documented it yet. And that is now captured. And you know, for those people that can’t afford the coaching service, they can do it for themselves, helping other people.
Debbie Jenkins (19:45):
They can do it for themselves using your book and that will give them a step change. It will help them become more of themselves and then they will earn more money and they’ll be more relaxed and then they’ll have more money to spend with you. In my opinion, there is never, you should never be afraid of documenting and sharing your process because it’s the, when they work with you personally, then they get that whole extra dimension. If you can help them in your book, you can help them get closer to being able to afford you. So I never worry about giving too much away. It’s a fear that lots of people have giving too much way. Okay. So I’m going to ask you some more questions. You’ve been very good about your ten years. It took you 10 years to write your book and and then you wrote it in seven months. So, 10 years to seven months, I mean, those are like two extremes.
Debbie Jenkins (20:57):
Di you imagine it would only take seven months or were you, or was that a shock for you?
Estelle Read (21:02):
No, it was a shock because, you know, in your program you encourage the client to write a letter or to write an email to self, which then pops up 12 months later. And I said, mine came up the other week and I was like, Oh my God, I hadn’t finished eight years ago.
Debbie Jenkins (21:25):
Yeah. So you beat your own expectations.
Estelle Read (21:29):
Yeah, I was amazed.
Debbie Jenkins (21:30):
Yeah. Fantastic. The future may email thingy? I think I’ll put it in the link below I use it for myself. And like we talked about right at the beginning, sometimes you write the book that you need to read or you, you create the program that you needed yourself. I did this because I needed it. I needed to set future goals. And then to know that I’d actually achieve and to actually be able to say, Oh my God, I did what I set out to do. I’m a good girl, completely crazy chaos filled Looney tunes. I can actually achieve things and tick them off. So that’s what I came up with that for me. And then I realized how useful it was and shared it with other people.
Debbie Jenkins (22:13):
Okay. So A couple of things you brought up here. One of them is Havening, I’d like to go back to Havening because you called it the cheat, so it’s a trick to cheat. It’s getting people there faster. Do you Haven yourself, do you use Havening on yourself to cheat?
Estelle Read (22:35):
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, I was recording my first podcast the other day and I’m sat there, rocking on my swing seat. And as I’m recording this podcast spontaneously, excuse me. And then you confessed to the listeners that I realized the issue I was talking about on the podcast, maybe some work doing now. And I shared the memory that I was going to go off and Haven after the podcast and I went off and that’s what I did. And you know, I, I’ve got to practice what I preach or as one of the coaches said to me on a post today, you’ve got to eat what you cook, because that can sometimes be one of the criticisms of the coaching community or the NLP community is that you’ve got to sort your own stuff out first to be able to work with other people.
Estelle Read (23:40):
So, yeah. And you know, just as you describe it as we’ll do a piece of work, and then we’ll have a step change and then we’ll have a set change and that’s the way it is. That you’ll do you do a piece of Havening work and it might be all sorts of different connected events and you’ll feel the benefits. But the interesting thing with Havening is that, you know, and this is just to give you an example. So I used to have a real fear of heights and I used to be claustrophobic as well. So when I was 30, so embarrassing, we went to New York. I couldn’t go up the Empire State building because it was in the lift and it was up high. And so I’m sitting there, and yet it was my 30th birthday. So my husband went off himself and long story short, I did a piece of Havening work, which I share in the book.
Estelle Read (24:37):
And a couple of years ago we went off skiing. And all of a sudden I realized I’m in a gondola, which is basically a higher up lift and I was off and I didn’t give a crap. I was just like, Oh my God, I’d forgotten I’d done that piece of work. And now I’m no longer afraid of these things. And that’s when it feels like cheating, you’ll do a piece of work. You’ll slip back into a context and you’re just different. And sometimes, you know, like you would, when you and I have worked, sometimes people get almost uneasy. Like what, what did we work on?
Debbie Jenkins (25:17):
Yeah. You have to remind me every time we talk, I’m like, what did we do last time? It’s like, you think you’ve given me some sort of magic pill that, that, that elevates me to my next level. And you know, I’m still down here, but I’m getting there. I’m getting there. And I look forward to the pill every time, but it is, it’s a much, it’s like a magic trick. The Havening video, it’s a two minute video. I’m going to put the link to that two minute video below because it’s a cool video. It’s really funny. And it’s effective. You know, I watched that while we were working on your book, I refused to let you do Havening on me because I wanted to read about it fresh and practice it from the book to test it. I test everything.
Debbie Jenkins (26:02):
And I did a little bit and I was practicing and I was like, okay, now you can coach me. Your book, the stories you share in the book are fantastic. The book is fantastic. The story sharing the way you are so open and relaxed in the book like you are now, and that really will help people take that next step. Okay. Right. I’m gonna, you, you mentioned some things, podcasts, first thing, a new thing you’ve done recently. So one of my favorite questions and I’m using it on everybody at the moment is when was the last time you did something for the first time?
Estelle Read (26:43):
Well, as I was saying in here, I’ve had to do lots of things for the first time. And I was having a chat with my stepson yesterday, cause we do a website review and he has been giving me hints and tips for absolutely ages. And I realized the reason I didn’t take action is that I was too comfortable. Business was easy. It was just coming in and there was no kick up the bum for me to do anything different. Well, when the pandemic hit, business fell off a cliff for me, because people come to my office and sit in the coaching chair. And even though we could do it via zoom or whatever else, because we’d already got that personal relationship, it didn’t translate. And that’s one of the ways, but that’s one of the things I need to change in my business is that I need to recruit clients online so that they’re more comfortable with doing what we’re doing right now.
Estelle Read (27:46):
And so consequently, I have done a podcast and I, I think I’m a classic activist. I don’t care about screw ups, or failing. Fantastic. I, you know, I, I laugh because I decide to get on, learn, have a go and then learn from that, and then go, Oh, we’ll do that again. So I wouldn’t say almost swing seat again with the traffic in the background and the birds tweeting in the background. I learned that I will do something different next time. I started blogging on medium. That was something new. I’ve done blogs for years, but you have to publish it on the site like that. That was quite scary and exciting. I did my first webinar a couple of months ago, I had this big thing about, because I’m also a trainer, you know, you don’t need webinars. Well, you know what, I’ve had a kick up the bum.
Estelle Read (28:43):
And yet what was interesting, I absolutely loved it, I really, really loved it. And I can’t believe I’ve procrastinated that long. I’ve got my first work paid online work as well. So I repurposed material that I did on a webinar recorded it and sold it. So it was like a bit of passive income. So yeah, loads of things, as I say, I’ve had a big kick up the rear. And so I’ve just been forced to do lots of things differently and yes, it’s been scary, but it’s also been exciting. I haven’t had this excitement and enthusiasm for changing things since I set up Beee 15 years ago, it’s just been fantastic.
Debbie Jenkins (29:38):
Those were a brilliant list: blogging on someone else’s platform experimenting with podcasts, experimenting with a webinar getting paid for re-purposing material. I mean, that’s a fantastic list. Now I’m going to ask you a question. What have you learned? Because you, you needed the kick up the bum of a pandemic to get you to do these things. So what are you going to do in the future to avoid cause I’ve I do as well. I get into these sort of like I get up in the morning, I do the routine. Everybody tells you, you know, you need a morning routine needs an easy routine routine routine routine. Get a plan, get a system. How are you going to keep this enthusiasm for scary but exciting things in the future? What you said that you don’t need another pandemic to, to keep this movement forward.
Estelle Read (30:29):
I have no idea. That’s a really good question. I do know I get my excitement and my inspiration from reading stuff, you know? So that is, and I think one of the, one of the challenges, you know, back to managing constraints and all that type of thing I’ve had doing this pandemic is learning so much stuff. I’ve had so many ideas, you know, like, you know, that webinar you did with the ideas jar and Oh my God, my head was exploding with all these ideas. You know, I’m sure, you know, the book that I’m reading, Copywriting Secrets, I’ve got so many business books on the go that which provides amazing inspiration. But I think the thing I’ll take away from this is… I have cracked through my to do lists like nobody’s business and I’ve just got to get on with it. And the big lesson has got to be recognize when you procrastinating, but Oh my God, I must be the world’s worst procrastinator. And I procrastinated for 10 years on the book, all these bloody changes I’ve made in my own business. So that’s got to be the lesson. Isn’t it recognize when I’m procrastinating and just crack on?
Debbie Jenkins (31:49):
Yeah, I think that, that you make that sound so easy and it’s so hard, isn’t it? Because I think we areis it James Clear’s book about what are the triggers and when you’ve got, you’ve got to spot the trigger and then add a new, rather than try and remove a habit, you need to add something onto that trigger. So for example, procrastination is one of my favorite things in the world. You know, I’m with you on the master of procrastination. I think I’m better at chaosification and creating chaos than I am at any other thing in the world. And that chaos that you were talking about of the reading, of the podcasts, that the learning stuff, there comes a point I believe where you have to say, okay, yeah, I’ve started to see the same things again and again, and again, same patterns, the same learning.
Debbie Jenkins (32:45):
I’m reading almost the same book, just with a different name, different authors name on it. I know now that for now, I know now I’ve got to go out there and do. So the change from knowing to doing, and that’s the biggest jump and the biggest gap that we will have to do. I think there’s a trigger. And I think the trigger is, I’ve read this book before, or I’ve seen this. This is the second time I’ve seen this type of information. That means I already have learned this. Now I need to do something
Estelle Read (33:17):
That is such a massive light bulb, honestly, really is. That’s such a valid point because I’m sat here wincing, saying Oh My God!, Because I read so many books on how to write a book!
Debbie Jenkins (33:40):
I think exactly. And you should dive into your fearlessness because your are one of the people I know that just thinks I’m going to do something and then you just go out and do it. And so I think that right now is the time for all of us to do that. You know, there is a saying that you can’t leap a chasm in two steps or whatever. And I think now it’s time to take a leap of faith and know that you know enough. And just TEST because you’re not afraid. So if the test comes back with anything that we’re doing, this is how I’m talking, not to you talking to me.
Debbie Jenkins (34:22):
If we treat ourselves as experimenters, rather than experts, that it gives us the permission to go out there, try something like this podcast. This is, this is new for me. This is one of my, when if you’ve done something for the first time recently, this is one for me doing podcasts. I think there’s a time where to learn and there’s a time to gather information and then there’s a time to just get out there and test it. And I’m in testing mode. I’m an experimenter, not an expert. And I’m enjoying it. So I like that’s, I find it really exciting. So, okay. What would, what advice would you give to your 20 year old self now
Estelle Read (35:09):
Just to have more personal faith? What I do in my job is that I get people to believe in themselves and you know, little old me, I’m trying to think how old I would be. Yeah. I was an HR manager 20 years ago and I had aspirations of running my business and was completely scared and didn’t think I was good enough to do that. And here we are 15 years in. Yeah. So that, that, that his own way. And I think that has served me well, because I know from that lesson that you’ve got to kind of shoot for the stars and just give it a go. And I loved what you said earlier that we are experimenters because it reframes failure. If we’re experimenting is permission, isn’t it to have a go.
Debbie Jenkins (36:20):
Yeah. Well, my most recent experiment was an online “join my club”. And Oh my God, how many times has that crashed, fallen down, the payment processing system doesn’t work. And you know it’s just an experiment and people saying, Oh, I want to buy it. And I’m like you can’t, go away. Very soon. She says optimistically, but it’s a, it’s an experiment. And then I didn’t feel so guilty when it failed because it was just a step onto success. And you know, I now know I need to fix this, or I need to get someone to sort that out or I need to buy a different thing. It’s just a step closer to the success.
Estelle Read (37:07):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely reminds me of Black Box Thinking and that’s a similar ethos that, you know, you benefit from marginal gains and he can spend loads of time perfecting just that one item and it never gets out into the world, or you can make an adjustment and move on, make an adjustment, move on. And you adopt this growth mindset as opposed to being afraid of failing.
Debbie Jenkins (37:41):
And that perfectly describes my Minimum Valuable Asset process, which is make something, the smallest item you can, that’s valuable to the person who needs it. That is an asset to you. That means that you will not work. They’re working, which is your paid online recaps in your paid online course. No you it’s. Okay. It’s the minimum you could have done. It’s valuable to the person who buys it and it’s an asset for you because it creates stuff where you’re not there and on that subject, what is that? And how do we get it?
Estelle Read (38:09):
Well you can’t get to it actually. Well, you can, you can get it in a fuddled way around, but getting it cause I did it through event bright. So you can download it through that. It will be on until the end of the year. It’s a strategic planning session and I think it’s like 29 pounds, something like that. And it’s a two hour workshop. You get a strategic planning template. So the idea is at the minute, lots of people and organizations are having to pivot the business. They’re having to redirect because of the pandemic because of the recession approaching. And so they need to think about where they take their own business. And often people get scared by visioning strategic planning. They think it’s over complicated, or this is a dead simple process. It’s one page plan. So you get the template and then you get the two hour webinar, which explains how to fill in the template. But you also get real live examples from previous participants. Because again, sometimes they’ll go, well, what is the vision? You know, can I see an example. Well, yeah, you can hear what the other webinar delegates said.
Debbie Jenkins (39:33):
Fantastic. So that is exactly a minimum valuable asset. It’s simple adds huge value to the person who buys it. And it’s an asset for you because it sits there and works while you’re not there. So that’s perfect. Good job. Okay. So let’s wrap it up now. Is there anything I haven’t asked you that you want to tell me? How can people get in touch with you? Where’s the best way for them to find out all about Estelle.
Estelle Read (40:09):
I’m looking for a publisher, looking for a publisher,
Debbie Jenkins (40:18):
Love it.
Estelle Read (40:20):
You can find me on social media, Estelle@beee.com. So you can usually find me on all usual stuff. So LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube as well. Also my new podcast, which is Inside(r) Exec Secrets. But if you want to get in touch, just drop me an email at estelle@bee.company and just drop me a line and you can book a free discovery session as well. So if you go to my website, you’ll be able to book a free two hour discovery section. You can experience Havening if you want. Www.Beee.Company
Debbie Jenkins (42:10):
Fantastic. I’d highly recommend the discovery session as I always put it in my diary, it’s a really great way of finding out about Estelle and seeing if you click with her. She will give you an insight into Havening and you’ll be shocked at how fast you can cheat getting back to you. Okay. Thank you so much for being with us. And I’ll put all the links below so that people can get in touch with you.
Estelle Read (42:46):
Yeah. Thank you for having me. Bye.