Look for the signals…
Jane: “Naming things is hard, but you can iterate it – not all hamsters should be called fluffy”
“Have data-driven conversations because that’s where the power is”Jane Frankland, https://jane-frankland.com/
Jane took advantage of the accidental creation process to serve people who knew, liked and trusted her…and how Jane used a Kickstarter campaign to test her idea for a book… would people put money down?
“How, “Your comment is very revealing.” shuts up the worst haters”Jane Frankland, https://jane-frankland.com/
Jane Frankland: Cybersecurity Specialist. Entrepreneur. Writer
Jane Frankland is working to better the world by training and educating businesses on cybersecurity. She focuses specifically on gender inclusion in science through the IN Security Movement, which she founded to connect, inspire and empower cybersecurity professionals. She believes “a more gender balanced workforce will enable greater security, innovations and all-round happiness.”
So today we’re going to be talking to Jane Frankland. Jane is a cybersecurity specialist. He’s an entrepreneur and she’s a writer and she’s been working to better the world by training and educating business on cybersecurity. Now she focuses specifically on gender inclusion in science, through her insecurity movement, but she found it herself. She’s also working to create a more gender balanced workforce to enable greater security innovations and all around happiness. So welcome Jane. You’re an inspiration to me or an inspirational creates your insecurity movement, the keynotes that you do around the world. And of course your book insecurity that all been fantastic inspirational. So really liked to know knife from you is tell me a bit more about your creation process and what’s happening for you right now.
Jane Frankland (00:00:51):
Yeah. Thanks Debs. So good to be talking to you. So for me, I typically create quite purposefully if we’re talking about business and things like that. So I’ll give you an example. Recently, you know, we’re going through the COVID-19 at the moment and the beginning of the year, actually I started off creating a mastermind. So this is called in profit. It’s still there. It’s still going and then COVID-19 happened. I can’t. Okay. Let me just think how I’m going to go into like the creative process. Well I think I start with, okay. I start with a goal, so it’s just like, for me, my essay again, so I can just go like straight into a concept cause you can edit.
Jane Frankland (00:01:49):
So, so really it starts with a goal. So I’m very, very goal orientated and I’ll give you an example. So I had to pivot my business this year because of COVID-19 and everything that was going on and took me by surprise, like, like most people, but I needed to when, when pretty much every bit of income stopped because of COVID-19 people started panicking. People started saying, well, let’s just hang on to our money for a moment. Let’s do it next month. Let’s do it in a week or whatever. Let’s see how this goes. It was very much like that when, when COVID-19 here at roundabout towards the end of March, mid March to, to end of March. And so for me, I, the first thing that I did was kind of accepted it and then I kind of panicked thinking, Oh my God, like, how the hell am I gonna, you know, keep, keep going actually.
Jane Frankland (00:02:44):
And so the first thing that I did was I went out to my audience and started serving them because I had lots of entrepreneurs who, some of whom were friends, you know, contact me and, you know, literally in tears or on their knees already really worried saying, how, how do I do this? You know, I’ve got 50 quid, you know, in my bank account or I don’t have bills, you know, I can only keep going until, you know, the, for one more month and then escape game over and I’ve got team to pay for and things like this all over the world, this was happening. And I was taking all these calls and I thought, okay, right, fine. I was dealing with them. I was getting them into a state where they could actually think creatively. So calming their minds, getting them away from work and going through a whole process with them.
Jane Frankland (00:03:26):
And then suddenly I thought, you know what, this, I really should be doing a master class on this. I should be sobbing more people then not going to be the only ones struggling with this. So I created a masterclass. I as live, you know, I got into acting really, really quickly got online, set up a sales page and not a sales page or a landing page. Rather I’m promoting this, how this master masterclass delivered great value. And then I suddenly thought, you know what, actually, I could really help myself if I actually sold something and I haven’t done that. And it was very much a case of like, you do get in the sale, you know, you should, you know, you went when you need it most, you know, you’ve gone out to serve and you’ve not even sold, so hashtag fail. And so I then did another one, which I’d always planned for different time zones.
Jane Frankland (00:04:16):
So I could cap and gets, you know, more people from around the world, into it, quickly put together a sales page and all the back ends and a program thinking about, well, what could I offer? I thought about the conversations that I’d had, all of the stuff that I usually teach or coach and mentor, you know, when I’m working with, with my clients, put something together, delivered the next masterclass with a sound’s offer at the end of it. You know, and I actually called in my energy power, which is something that my female energy while that, which is something that I don’t typically do when it comes to, to selling’s selling and sales campaigns. So they actually thought about, well, how much, how much how many sounds do I want to make? How much income do I want to bring in from this offer from this campaign, this sales campaign.
Jane Frankland (00:05:08):
So got myself into my female energy calling in, you know, using that, that power and then went out to deliver this masterclass and delivered it and sold a whole pile of, you know, seats. And so this workshop was happening. I brought money into my business and then set about kind of going [inaudible], I’m going to do this in a really short space of time because I was delivering the class the following week. So it was live. It was absolutely fine delivered that it was really well received. You know, they were blown away with the value that they received from it, which made me really happy because I’ve got a good reputation and it’s really important that I don’t just meet my clients expectations, but I’d seed them. So I’m always myself in that way, deliver above and beyond so that my reputation is always maintained and, you know, word gets around, you know, Jane is like this Jane delivers great value, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Jane Frankland (00:06:08):
And so after that, I then thought, great, excellent. Now my next job is really to, rather than be constantly doing this. I’ve got such great content. Now I want to put it online. So I’ve already got some programs online. And so for me, what I did was I said about recording, you know, scripting videos, recording videos, making orders, the data sheets, data sheets that I delivered you know, for my clients, for the students of the program, you know, into that nice. And they were polished and everything like that and onto the learning platform. So that’s kind of really how I went about creating, you know, something. So that was my last kind of creation. And that was done really, really fast.
Debs Jenkins (00:06:54):
No, I’ve got some questions for you really fast cycling. And one of my things, one of the things that I believe is that there are three steps to creating something. There’s the chaos phase, there’s the constraints bit in the middle, and then there’s the creation bit at the end. And what I can see from your process through, through that model is that you created something based on serving. So you already had people who loved you and trusted you and knew you. And and so you created something for them because you could serve there. And it was, Oh, so that creates your creation process was kind of almost accidental.
Jane Frankland (00:07:39):
Absolutely. And it was absolute chaos, so it was pandemonium. And then it really was, and it was in that it was in total, the situation was chaos because none of us had ever experienced anything like COVID-19, but it was so the process was quite messy, so it’s quite chaotic, you know, thinking, okay, I’m putting this and doing this and all of that. So I completely agree with that.
Debs Jenkins (00:08:03):
And so you had, but because you’ve been in business a while and you’ve, you’ve done some bits before, so you were able to pull from all the different things that you had already created perhaps and tested in the past and then build them back into a new offering. Is that sort of how it worked?
Jane Frankland (00:08:21):
Absolutely. And it’s funny, and I know you’re gonna like, probably like, not be happy with me for bringing this up, but it was the same thing with a book. So we worked together on my book, you and my book coach. Excellent. And everyone who sees Debs as about coach, but my book, my book happens as an accident. So that came from a blog and then I decided to actually do a report and, you know, thinking, well, that could help, you know, this is something that people care about. This could really help people. So let me just like sorta out in a week and a half, you know, put together something that’s more helpful, you know, put together these guides and things like this. And then just before going in launching that, you know, to my audience, then I suddenly thought, well, maybe I should actually do some interviews or maybe it should actually be a book. So let’s go out to the, to my market and test. Do you want a book? You know, yes. Everyone wants a book. Do you really want to vote? Yes. So let’s test this with a Kickstarter. Yes they do. Because they put their money down. So all of that came from, again, like it was the, it was an accident. So it was a lot of chaos driving, all of that, which is really interesting.
Debs Jenkins (00:09:32):
I think so as well, and you said the word for me that like lights me up, which is you tested ideas. And the only way you can test ideas is external to what’s going on in your brain. I mean, the chaos phase, that’s mostly insight here. It was sort of like, Oh, this was like, I wonder if this would work. What about this? Shall I create a bit of this? And it’s only when you go out and actually speak to somebody or tested with real people that, you know, whether that’s a creation, that’s going to have legs. So when you know, when you’ve tested it, what’s your process then? How do you, how do you continue from, from that
Jane Frankland (00:10:06):
Looking for signals? And that testing is really important. I love testing and I love doing experiments. It’s just like part of who I am. And I’ve always, usually got one on the go, but it’s also important because time, time is you can never get time back. So it’s like, I’m some single parent, you know, I’ve got three, three kids, you know, to, to support. So it’s really important that I don’t mess with that. You know, you can never get time back. So for me, I’m looking for signals. So what I always do is I go out on online. So, you know, sometimes I don’t even, you know, sometimes yes, I can test it with a power policy, you know, that I have. So a group of people who I really, really trust in a restaurant and this, but in my book, but people that I really trust who might have done, you know, what I’m about to do.
Jane Frankland (00:10:54):
So it could be my coaches, you know, what’d you think about this? You know, I’m just running an idea past them. So I might do that fast, but most of the time, because I walk at speed, I’m going out online. So what I will do is, you know, put something together, like a little message I’m thinking about doing this, you know, would this be of interest to you if I did it? So that’s, and I can do that in email as well. And I have done that in email, like say with the mastermind before I launched that, I sent almost like a one liner through to my list saying, I’m thinking about doing a mastermind, hit me, hit me back with a, yes. If this is something that you are interested in, like no prices or anything like that. So instantly like, you know, however many, you know, came back in floods.
Jane Frankland (00:11:38):
So it’s just like, that was a signal to me. Okay. Well, that’s something that you, you, you might be interested in, you know, if I do it online, usually my, my main platform is on LinkedIn, you know, LinkedIn and Twitter and Instagram mostly. But in that kind of order, so I’ll do it on nine 10. I’m thinking about doing this. Is there something that you’re, you’re interested in and then I look for the signals, so yes, yes, yes. And then I’ll also further tasks by sometimes writing blogs and then I’ll, I’ll look, I always answer, always have call to actions. So it’s just like, now I want to hear from you, you know? So it’s just like, and then I looked for the comments and then I looked for the golden nuggets in those comments. Well, what more so I can refine that, you know, through blogs or through different messages, what more do you want
Debs Jenkins (00:12:26):
Taken all the guesswork out? So you make an assumption, you test it, get feedback, refine me, find the thing that people want so that when you create something you’ve got a ready made market because you’ve, you’ve made the market.
Jane Frankland (00:12:41):
Then I further test it by offering something for sale. So often. So say like with the program that I’ve just talked about, which was I called, you know, I’m useless with names and calling things. I seriously am, you know, called my fluffy hamster when I was 11 fluffy, but I actually, it can be quite, it can be quite useful. So with this one, I thought, well, what do they want? So they, I called it client attraction, 10 X, you know, it’s so unoriginal, but it’s just like, these are mostly for entrepreneurs or salespeople, you know, there’s programs. So what do you want? You know, you want to attract your clients, you know, you want more sales. So I just thought, don’t even ask, don’t even test. It’s gotta be called this, that, you know, I’m pretty comfortable with that. But I put together the offer, the sales, that was a further task without creating it. So again, I’m not going to spend time creating something without testing, same with my book, you know, Kickstarter, do you really want those? Cause I’m not going to invest my time, which is money and takes me away from my kids and all the other things that I could be doing, unless you actually put your money down, then I will go and creator.
Debs Jenkins (00:13:50):
How do you feel in that gap between what’s, what’s going on in your head and us, that gap between making an offer when you don’t, when it doesn’t actually exist and getting the yes. Signals back? What happens next? I mean, is it exciting? Is it, are you afraid what happens?
Jane Frankland (00:14:06):
It’s well, I, I kind of grown up, so, so I’ve been in business for a long, long time. So roundabout, well, probably about 22 years. So if not longer. And my last company, that’s kind of how we, as a team often did it. So we went through a similar process of testing with the clients. You know, this is what we can do for you. Is this what you want? You know, this is what you do it. And then we go and create so I’m quite used to that, but this is just me. My, my business now is, is just me. You know, I do have a team behind me, but it’s just me leading it. So all of that, that responsibility falls to me. It’s not shared. So it’s the same, same type of thing, except you know, more responsibility. There is fear.
Jane Frankland (00:14:56):
There is anxiety, but I use that to fuel me as opposed to stop me. So it’s just like, you know, you said, you’re going to do it. You’re a person of your word. You always deliver beyond expectations. So this has to be good at, so basically trust in the process, believe in yourself and get, get into, into activity, targeted, focused, active, everything else has to stop. So it’s things like, you know, I am, I’m an influencer in my markets, you know, inside of R and D and in tech in, in the UK and also globally as well. So for me, it meant that I had to reduce my, my messaging online. So at the moment, it’s just me doing this. So that meant I’ve got a choice. I can either carry on with all that messaging and keep on being vocal and having all of these things, or I can actually get ready, focused. But I had to look at, this is my commitment. I’ve sold time. So therefore it was a very easy choice. That stuff is not making me money. That stuff is not essential right now. Whereas the central right now is me delivering a really wild class program to those who’ve bought it. So I had to get really talking to the Bookout, all of the noise, not answer emails that are relevant and things like that, that we’ll have to wait.
Debs Jenkins (00:16:15):
So talk to me, cause now you’re talking. So this process of, of chaos constraint creation, you’re not talking about these constraints. How do you cause like we have constraints put upon us and we also put constraints on ourselves and I, I believe without constraints, we don’t create anything of value we’re outside. We’re just doing the container container. So talk to me about your constraints, the constraints that you have put on you. You’re, you’re a single mom, you’ve got kids, you’ve got responsibilities in your personal life. So you’ve got the constraints put upon you. How do you put constraints? How do you manage all of the constraints and how do you set your own constraints? So that creation is enjoyable rather than a response. Only a response.
Jane Frankland (00:16:59):
Yeah. Well these are like boundaries, aren’t they? The constraints on that, but I like boundaries. So time is one. You know, I do have, you know, I’ve got my kids to like feed and everything like that and, and talk to cause they’re older. So they need a lot of kind of emotional support and things like that. So I just have to get really focused about it. And you know, what I do at the beginning and end of the day is at the end of the day was kind of put down, make my list, you know, so I don’t have necessarily online tools that can, I do have loads of online tools, like loads and loads, but for me, I keep it really simple. So I’ve got my pad, I’m a paper and I will write down, you know, what I need to do. So it’s my list and then I’ll prioritize it.
Jane Frankland (00:17:42):
So the, and I, I, I use a, B and C, so AR have to have to they’re like chaos crisis. And then bees are next on the, on the less seeds seasoned days. If that, if they’re there, I’ve got to do after. So I’ll look through that. But what I try and do is keep it to three. So what are the main things that I need to need to do? And as part of this whole pivot process as well, I’ve really realized, you know, I’ve taken a look at my energy. So the time constraints, my energy, what lifts me up what am I good at? And think things like that and realize that, you know, there are only three things I really need to do in my business. And the three things that have to do in my business and life really to keep me well and performing and, and serving and happy and honoring myself because that’s part of the whole thing.
Jane Frankland (00:18:35):
I need to exercise on a daily basis. So that keeps me mentally strong, physically, physically strong. Typically I walk with my dog. I live in the countryside, so that’s great. It’s like meditating, I don’t think, but it enables me to be really creative without having to be creative. So it’s just time outs and I really don’t go out for gear, but put them into the solver, you know, just go out and kind of go my thoughts, bouncing through the, you know, fancy through the grass. And she’s always lovely, you know, Oh, I can hear the birds and I can smell this and all of those barriers at night, whatever it is, you know, it’s just total tight time out for me and smelling the air and like absorbing everything and using my senses. And it’s gorgeous. I just seem very invariably enables me to be creative, especially for, for writing. And that’s just before he got here,
Debs Jenkins (00:19:26):
I think that’s really fascinating because before you talked about accidental creation, you were saying, you’re actually, you actually daily, regularly create opportunities for accidental creation. So you’re creating a space for the ideas to flow and the idea of, I think that’s beautiful. Sorry.
Jane Frankland (00:19:42):
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Walking is really, really creative I’ll cycle and things like that. And I’ll do it like walk outs, but, but walking, I have to do have to do, and it is creative medium for me. The other things that I have today, I have to write. So, you know, I’ll, I’ll video, I’ll do podcasts and things like that or mediums, but writing is really important. So I am a writer and, you know, I enjoy writing is my main medium. So I have to write because this is how I serve my audience. This is how they know about me, et cetera, et cetera. So I have to write, and then I have to read, because reading enables me to become more knowledgeable with that knowledge. Then I can put it into my writings. I can create programs and courses. It enables so much more. So that keeps me learning.
Jane Frankland (00:20:28):
It keeps me fresh. It keeps me open and expanding. So those three things that I have to have to do on a daily basis. So these things are also constraints and their boundaries. So I now know that really thanks to the reset and the looking inwards that really happens from COVID 19, because this thing is something that’s never happened before. It really made me stop and think, well, life is really precious. And I know that, but actually I could die. I, you know, that’s, it’s not highly likely, it’s, it’s a higher than normal probability. So we need to look at plans around all of that. And, and including not just pivoting my business, but actually what do I want? You know, what makes me happy? What lights me up, you know, things that I might’ve been avoiding and actually now, do you know what I’m going to do this because actually I like doing that.
Jane Frankland (00:21:20):
And I’m really why something, so now is the time to actually go, no. Now is the time for me to use all of these constraints and boundaries. You know, some of which are scary. So say for example, I have avoided or not being ready or whatever, going out and purely serving women. So it’s just, I love, I love men and I love working with men and I love having men as my clients and all of that, but it would be very easy for me just to say, now I’m just working women. I only sell for women and all of that. And I didn’t want to do that. Now. I am much more comfortable doing that. So it’s just like, do you know what, now? Now I am. That’s who I work with. You know, I care deeply about people and men and women, but right now who needs me, the most women need me the most, you know, I’m a voice for women.
Jane Frankland (00:22:13):
I’m very well known for, for serving women. And, you know, there’s an, I wrote about this in the book, the equality and the equity women need me right now. And I can be a voice for the voiceless and I can help more women to become role models, to increase their visibility, no three programs like my personal branding program and influence program, which is called in demand 10 X, just rename that. But he really is about that. So I’m becoming much more comfortable with this boundary and constraints, which is an all encompassing, which serves me. So I’m, I’m bringing these things in these constraints and boundaries, some of which are quite uncomfortable for me, but I’m honoring myself and I’m also being guided by my intuition. So again, that feminine power that both men and women have, but that typically we as women and maybe as people have actually avoided, you know, because everything has gone tag, everything is science and everything. You know, everything has moved that way for, for many decades and that intuition and that power has been numbed and then we’ve moved away from that. So it’s almost like an awakening is just like we discovering my feminine energy, understanding it, you know, learning about it, you know, which, which excites me, having been in technology and being in technology, which all mechanical machine and the work that I do is with people. So understanding about this is really exciting to me, particularly as a woman
Debs Jenkins (00:23:57):
I was an electronics engineer, so I can relate to being in a very male dominated, dominated environment. And you know, I didn’t do very well in electronics because like, I don’t actually know how to shut up. So how to sit down and work. And I much prefer talking to people and being yeah. So, but yeah, so I kind of hid my feminine side for a while and not quite enjoying that. Maybe it’s a growing older for me. I don’t know
Jane Frankland (00:24:29):
A lot of the, a lot of it does come from that because you kind of reach an age where it’s just like, do you know what? I’m just gonna uncomfortable in my own skin. I’m going to be who I want to be, but there’s also that, that value that recognizing your value and honoring, honoring yourself and also that discovering and thanks to books and thanks to technology and things like that. And Google and the internet, we now have that capability. So we have all of these tools at the tip of our fingers so we can access them, you know, so there’s so much availability and I’m so thankful for it, for technology and machines and all of that. And that excitement excites me no end, but so does the, the awakening of the, you know, the, you know, the intuition and understanding about female energy and male energy and how you need to use both energies as a man and as a woman in order to really fulfill your potential, you know, so I find all that really interesting.
Jane Frankland (00:25:24):
So yeah, there are all those constraints and barriers. So I, you know, I’m, I’m using them and I’m having, you know, that faith in me and that belief know which is, which is very strong. And hasn’t always been like that. You know, at times I’ve been tested with, with that, you know, I’ve been knocked to my knees and everything has, has you know, imploded and and shaken me. And it, you know, it, there was a stage, you know, in the last 10 years or so where I had to pick myself up literally, and I was tested to my core and it’s just like, okay, like build, build, build, you know, get up on your feet after being knocked down repeatedly, you know, up on your feet and keep on building and, and, and acknowledging the process, your, your, your progress you’re making and reminding yourself of the progress that you’re making and hanging on to those little tiny wins and those small, tiny steps, not quantum leaps, cause there’s more steps lead to those quantum leaps.
Jane Frankland (00:26:24):
You know, so all of these things helped me to, as, as barriers, as constraints, as containers to, to actually build and create something, and time is always a really good container. And that, that promise my word is my bond. So unless there is, if I say I’m going to do something this time, I was always brought up and how I bring my children up. If I say I’m going to do something, then I do up, you know, so it’s just, I I’ve said, and he’s bought, so I have to, so that’s a really good constraint.
Debs Jenkins (00:27:01):
Do you use that as a, as a pool constraint? So it actually not forces, but it really pushes you into pulls you into creation or do you use it as a push? What, where is it? Is it is it a pain or a game constraint?
Jane Frankland (00:27:17):
I, it feels like a pool. Well, I don’t know. It’s really hard. One. Does it feel like a, does it feel like a, again, did you say a gain or a pain?
Debs Jenkins (00:27:28):
Yeah. So if you don’t do it well, you feel bad or if you do do it well, you feel great. It’s hard to,
Jane Frankland (00:27:32):
If I don’t do it, if I don’t do it, I will feel bad. It’s, it’s a non, it’s a non negotiable, it’s just it’s happening. So, so if I want to do it, then yes, I would feel my integrity would be questioned. I would feel I’ve not honored the promise that I’ve made. So yeah, absolutely. So therefore that would be a pool. Is that right?
Debs Jenkins (00:27:54):
Well, I, you, I mean, I think about it as a pain, so it’s a push because yeah. I think pain conditions tend to be the ones that actually compel us to,
Jane Frankland (00:28:07):
Yeah. Tony Robbins will say, you move, you know, you move towards pleasure and yeah. Against with pain. So that’s really interesting. So yeah, it is. But once it’s like all of these things, like the signals, then the Mark, then the commitment, because this is a commitment. So this is promising the commitment if I don’t then. Yeah, absolutely. It pains me
Debs Jenkins (00:28:26):
And accountability because I think as well, you you’re the same as I am, which is, I feel more accountable to my own word than anything else. So if I say something that, you know, I really want to follow through on that, but against everything.
Jane Frankland (00:28:41):
Absolutely. Yeah. Your word is your bond. It’s that promise. And, and it’s funny because you know, I’ve got my platform coming out, you know, which is, it’s a mentoring. So a mentoring platform for women in male dominated industries and it’s called Haven. And
Debs Jenkins (00:28:58):
Why is it called hype? And what’s, what is it?
Jane Frankland (00:29:00):
It’s Haven because it’s, it’s like a safe place. So this is a network, you know, for, for women, it’s a mentoring platform for women. So women who are in male dominated industries, or maybe about to enter into male-dominant dominated industries can come together and they can learn from experts like you, because you’re going to be on it, you know how to do some things. So there’s going to be a lot of the soft skills in there. So like leadership and right saying, and you know, how we dealt with the imposter syndrome, how we deal with bullying loads and loads of things. So and it will also be driven by the members, you know? So what do you want? So not necessarily a technical for how do I learn, how to code and things like that. They can be they can be facilities on there that can help you find resources like that.
Jane Frankland (00:29:50):
But essentially the, the teachings, the master classes that I will have will be around those, those areas. So there’ll be delivered live, there’ll be Q and A’s and things like that, but he’s very much a community platform. So there will be this mentoring aspect to guided mentoring and accountability. So if you’re in a job, then you can, or outside of a job, you can find a mentor that is rightful, where you are in your career. Or you can have an accountability buddy that will hold you accountable for safe projects that like we’re talking, talking about, you know, to help you. And then there will be a meetup side. So it’s just like, wherever you are in the world, if you want to go learn about this or meet up with this group of women in this country or location globally, then you can do that.
Jane Frankland (00:30:36):
So it’s being a hub as well. But say with this, what I thought was because I’ve been trying to launch this since last year and it’s not, for whatever reason that’s not happened. What I’m tempted to do is use a constraint like a Kickstarter project in order to do this. Because I know that if I go live with the Kickstarter, just like I did with my book, then one, it’s a signal, even though I’ve invested already in the platform, the platform is built. So even though I’ve invested money in this and time in this, et cetera, et cetera, it almost needs that final push know, and that the constraint can be the Kickstarter. It could be the Kickstarter. That will be a really good constraint for me and perch, because, because you set your deadline 30 days raise this amount of money that if you don’t raise that money, then you’ve got to use a different tactic. But it can be really useful like there. So for me right now, because this will be a program in the near future that will be launching. Do I use that as my constraint, my barrier in order to make sure that this is creative.
Debs Jenkins (00:31:50):
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s also a double test then, because you’ll be tested. It’s just, the market really wants it. Do they really read it really, really well? Like for your book, they put their money exactly. For your creation of your book. So yeah,
Jane Frankland (00:32:04):
Exactly. And then if they don’t, if they don’t want it, then I’m going to get useful feedback anyway. Well, what is it that you do want? So that just means a revision of the task. So it was just like, well, okay. It might not have been like this, but it will enable me to, to revise it. So there’s so much that comes from that.
Debs Jenkins (00:32:20):
Can I ask you a question? Cause like I can imagine that sort of thoughts people will be having is you’re very, very brave to test these ideas in public. So how do you feel in that process of testing?
Jane Frankland (00:32:36):
Well, it’s, to me it’s just a test. It’s fun. It’s a game, it’s an experiment. So it’s, it’s just, I really enjoy that because I’m so open to what it’s going to be. You know, I did some research, some groundbreaking research last year and which was all looking at women’s voices. So it was looking at behavior. So in my, in my industry specifically in cyber, so, and looking at events. So I was looking at behavior. I knew that a lot of harassment, a lot of sexual harassment was happening, but there was a lot of talk on other stories. So for me, what I wanted to do was go and actually get some data. So have data-driven conversations because there’s more power in power power in that also we can measure something. So this is our baseline. This is where we are now. So what I, what I did was I looked at behavior.
Jane Frankland (00:33:21):
I looked at women’s voices. Cause I’d heard that conference organizers and event organizers couldn’t find women to speak. Yeah. I was hearing from my female friends and MPA peers and network. I want to speak. So let’s just find out what’s going on. And then what do women want when they go to go to events? So I did this research and I only wants to get 500 responses globally. Well, within 24 to 48 hours, I had 700 responses. So they says that over 2000 responses, you know, to this to this piece of research that I was doing, but with this, some people thought that, Oh, she’s trying to engineer it. You know, she wants it. She wants to make the data, tell her story. So she wants to engineer it and dah, dah, dah, for me, I was so curious. It’s just that I really don’t know.
Jane Frankland (00:34:10):
So I want to put this out and I want to, it’s an experiment. It’s a piece of research. I’m open to what comes back to me. It’s like, it’s like working out on Christmas morning when you’re a kid. And you’re you still believe in, in product Christmas? I’m sorry, kids. For the Christmas I had to, he’s still alive. And so the barrier, I know that, but it’s, but it is like, Oh my God, you know, this is like unwrapping your present. Was he going to be, you don’t know. It’s so exciting. So, so for me, I really do, there is, you know, if it’s a sales offer yes. There’s that kind of like, Oh my God, is it going to sell? You know, is this going to be like a sell out? Is it going to like, Oh, you know, all of that stuff.
Jane Frankland (00:34:54):
So there is that excitement now, coupled with a bit of fear and depending on where you are, say with your business and cashflow and things like that, sometimes it can be a like, Oh my God, you know, moments or like, Oh my God, thank God. You know, because businesses have a flow and, you know, move and things like that. So it’s, it’s never static. But I do treat it like that. It it’s, it’s, it’s a gift and it’s, it’s exciting. And there is a bit of you know, fear and maybe a bit of anxiety mixed in with that. But by and large, I’m really open to what it shows. It’s, it’s always a good thing. And I treat it like that. It’s exciting. I think it’s really fascinating
Debs Jenkins (00:35:38):
As well, because you kind of came up with two really important things that, which is curiosity driven testing. And then, so that you can have data-driven conversations without that data. How do you, how you, you call it, explain the world. Yeah, so fascinated by that.
Jane Frankland (00:35:56):
I don’t think it’s particularly as say minority. So women are a minority in, in our industry. Particularly as a minority, you’re not taken seriously, you know, so with, with hard evidence with data, that is, that is one great power source. You know, that you can’t argue with the data. It’s just like they go in and in his, his methodology is the science behind it. There you go. So, so it helps us say as, as minorities, you know, as, as women in a male dominated industry. So depending on which research you look at the numbers of women in say sidebar and the thing from roundabouts you know, 10, 11% to maybe 20, 24%, you know, whatever it is, but we’re certainly not at the tipping points. So we are a minority in this industry. So it enables us to have meaningful conversations. And to, yeah, to be taken more seriously.
Debs Jenkins (00:37:00):
I want to ask you another question, a slightly different tack. One of the things that people that we’ve mentioned fear a couple of times, and I think sometimes people are afraid to put a creation out there or to put something or to put a question out there cause they’re afraid and they’re afraid of the haters. Now you recently with haters in the past, so I’ve been impressed. So tell me about that. Does it stop you the therapist?
Jane Frankland (00:37:30):
No. I mean, what really drives me is this obsession to excel. So we do know why I do what I do. And it’s really important that you understand why do you do what you do? And sometimes that takes months and months to, to evolve. Sometimes you might get it within, like you might know it immediately. Why do you do what you do? I know why I do what I do. And it’s quite obsessional for me. I’m so driven. And it enables me to be correct courageous, you know, it’s, I can’t help myself, you know, being a voice it’s not about saving. I don’t go in coming in to save you is not, it’s about empowering. It’s about teaching. It’s about helping. It’s about breaking down barriers. It’s about, come follow me. Let me, let me push you it now it’s your time. So it’s very much about, about that and about being a voice and a role model, visible role model for, to help others, you know, to pave that way for women, you know, especially, especially women.
Jane Frankland (00:38:31):
The, so, so for me, I know why I do what, what I do. So that enables me to be courageous before I was a speaker. You know, speaking like most people was my greatest fear, you know, apart from death. So it’s just like, I terrified and I avoided doubt pushed everyone forward. And yet you’d be the spokesperson. It’s not going to be me. I’ll, I’ll set everything up and do all of that, which is typically how a lot of people can be, especially women. And so I I’m compelled to do these things and, and serving, and it’s just much easier. It’s just much easier when you know, why you do what you do to be able to be courageous. Brene Brown has some great stuff on this, you know, she really does, you know, with her books and things like that. And she talks about you know, being in a, I’m just trying to think of a phrase that she used.
Jane Frankland (00:39:25):
It’s like the gladiator going into the pits, you know, do you choose today to do that? You know, so it’s not that I consciously wake up every single morning and kind of go, am I ready to, I’m ready to fight the fight? I don’t fit. It is part of my makeup. It’s part of my routine. I’m ready to do that. It’s like breathing, you know, I’m so ready. And I also know that, you know, I do know how to, how to do this. I have learned make mistakes, looked at the mistakes. I’ve made, sought guidance, read books, gone to my haters. Sometimes, you know, that a few years ago, you know, I had a, a very prominent heater when I, when I went out to fight for women and like many others, there’s a lot of [inaudible] people bring their own staff to what you put out there.
Jane Frankland (00:40:20):
So it’s just that they don’t bother to seek, to understand they bring their own agenda, their own problems, you know, to a lot of the things that you might put out there. So when I’m dealing with, with the haters or those who don’t, you know, necessarily there’s trolls, haters and trolls, you know, for me, it’s just like, okay, let’s look to try and figure out where they are. What’s going on in their lives. I’m not a mind reader or psychic or anything like that. But it’s just like to try and understand where they may be in their lives. And then, you know, you’ve got a choice as to whether or not, especially with a big following, looking at your every move. You know, sometimes it calls for actually I need to deal with this. You know, I need to push back. I need to seek to understand, I need to engage in dialogue.
Jane Frankland (00:41:11):
I need to try and bring you with me. If you don’t understand. So there’s all that, all of that going on, but then sometimes it is a case of no, do you know what? I might’ve done that one. So I might’ve done it twice. Now. It’s time for silence because silence is also power. So you have to use the two in combination depending on the situation. And then sometimes you can just use one liners. So for me that one of the best one liners that I have, which a lot of my se clients and students like T to use and is really puts you back in the, in the power kind of position because your parents never really lost you. You’ve always got power cause you are a, so it was a life force. But you can just hit them with the one-liner.
Jane Frankland (00:42:02):
Your comment is very revealing, you know? So that typically say what I do and I do really seek to understand first before putting that, because it’s just like, okay, well, you know, where are you with that? So it’s just like, that usually shuts them up because they have no kind of comeback for that. And it really is if I do use that, it is usually because I can see and read through between the lines and it’s just like, okay, right now I know exactly where you are, you know, with this and it’s just end off. It’s almost like, you know, putting go, you know, the end. Yeah. Bang done, move on. And it really is. You need to have something, I think with a lot of your communication, you know, it’s, I know we talked about the flow of communication, which, which would be good to bring up a bit to talk about that because the silence is power is, is a beautiful statement.
Jane Frankland (00:42:57):
Talk to me about your flow of communication. Cause recently you’d be more quiet than before to talk to me about that. Yeah. So, so my kind of communication, I’m very visible and very vocal. I’m online with my writing. Say I typically on a, my creativity you know, as a former designer and coming from it from an art background prior to tech and cyber, I brought one of those, something to say, you know, so I don’t write, you know, there are writers out there which will be disciplined and you know, maybe I’ll move into that. You know, that kind of discipline, you know, you right when you don’t want to write. But I typically write when I’ve got something to say, it’d be in my bonnet. Sometimes I write because I have to write because it’s, it’s a paid engagement, but typically it’s when I’ve got a bee in my bonnet and a half to an entrepreneur or thought leadership, you know, gone walking my dog and kind of thoughts about some things like, Oh, okay, right, fine.
Jane Frankland (00:43:50):
This is enlightening. I need to share this. And so that’s kind of how, how I usually do it. But more recently because of the COVID-19 because of me having to pivot my business, you know, I can’t be everywhere and do everything as one person who is communicating with my audience on many, many platforms and creating contents and, and serving my clients, you know, through coaching and mentoring and having these full coming projects on the go like Haven. There’s only so much time. So I’ve had to get really disciplined with that. So I’m not able to do that all the time. That is uncomfortable for me, especially say with my tri because I have got a group and it’s just like, it, it kills me not to be able to do that on a daily basis, but I’ve had to get really disciplined and focused and kind of say, I have surfed, I’ve got this push it’s, there’s a time limit.
Jane Frankland (00:44:49):
I have to do this. This is imperative for my business because I’ve got a family to feed and order this, this is income coming in. So I’ve got to focus. So there’s that going on? And there’s also this other, so my time is limited from that aspect. And I’ve got that focus on from that aspect, but there’s also the other thing whereby if right now we’re seeing so much noise online, you know, people I’ve really noticed it. There was so much trash online on every platform. You know, people are posting about, you know, what they’re doing, you know, things that just aren’t of interest things that might not be business focused or, or whatever. There’s so much noise. And it’s, it’s, it’s hard and harder than, than ever actually, because people are followed. People have been made on unemployed. You know, they’re, without jobs, people are working from home.
Jane Frankland (00:45:42):
Maybe they’re not as busy as they were. So you’ve got all of their, like everyone like piling online, you know, trying to be active and, and all of their, so you’re trying to navigate through that as an influencer. You know, one of the things that you can do to, to raise your influence even more, or to be more impactful with your message is actually to go silence. So when everyone goes noisy, you go silent. So a lot of people have reached out, are you okay, Jayna? You know, it’s like, yeah, absolutely. This is where I am. So he’s not being unnecessarily conscious effort for me to kind of deliberately go, right. I’m going sign it when everyone’s going noisy. But I am aware of that. So that means that when I do write, when I do get out there with this ebb and flow that you’ve spoken about, people will listen more. It’s just like, Oh, she’s back. What’s she got to say, so
Debs Jenkins (00:46:34):
I think of, of communications is out going communications, which I think the noise thing that you’re talking about this is communicating at you. I think that has music almost, which is to, to hear the notes of the music you need. The pause is between the notes. And if you just constantly shouting or constantly communicating, there are no pools. If there is no, there is no gaps for other people to respond. And that’s what I’m seeing at the moment. So there’s this constant barrage of communicate, communicate, communicate, do this 30 days program with communicate, communicate. I looked up, you get that.
Jane Frankland (00:47:12):
So unless it’s about the same in that, that means that you can do that online, but you can also do that. If you, if you’re an entrepreneur, if you’re a business with your email, you know, so you can have yes, the regularity of every single week. And I, I, I am a fan of that, but sometimes it can be, Oh, you, you exp or there are businesses out there and markets is out there, which we’ll do it more often than that, you know? So it’s almost like they launch one program, then they’re into another, and it’s just like constant, constant messaging. And as a receiver of that as a consumer of that, you switch off, you know? So it’s just like, and that I think is really, really true. So whether it’s in your email or whether you’re online, you automatically switch off because you’ve come numb to it.
Jane Frankland (00:47:56):
You have to go again rather than, Oh, what do they got to say? So weekly, I think is almost like a, a bear. You know, it’s almost like the highest flood, you know, it’s like, but going longer than that is absolutely fine. But it’s, I think any more than weekly, unless you’re pushing for the end of a sales campaign, then I think it’s too much. It’s just like overload, overload, tune out, switch off, turn the noise down. All of that happens. So I love what you’ve just said about the notes, you know, the, the, the messaging and the communication being the post, the broadcast, the music. I love that.
Debs Jenkins (00:48:34):
It’s nice to cut thinking of it as music, rather than as cacophony or just completely banging the drum all the time. You know, you need sometimes banging the drum in the music is great. And other times the slow cello or whatever it is, you need, you need the, you need the differences, I think.
Jane Frankland (00:48:53):
Yeah. And, you know, even if you do think of writing, writing has a flow, the longest sentences, short snappy ones, every bit of communication that we have has has that flow has that rhythm.
Debs Jenkins (00:49:04):
Yep. Yep. Yeah. I’m breaking up with rhythm then gets attention. So, you know, there’s like, so there’s lots of things you can play with that as a great metaphor. Okay. Right. I’ve got a couple more questions for you because I’m finishing this up. One is you talked about so many different things you do you know, with your platform, with the new Haven program, how do you do it, or do you outsource, do you do everything yourself? How do you do that?
Jane Frankland (00:49:30):
So I’m a huge, huge fan of outsourcing. And I typically work on the basis that I am, there are so many better people than me. So that’s my kind of natural default. And I’m not taking away from my, my skills or abilities and competencies. Cause I am really skilled at that certain things, but you have to know what you’re really good at. You have to know what you really enjoy. So what, what brings you down? I know that energetically yeah, doing my accounts. I can do it. I’m good at it. It’s just like, no, unless the music’s on. It’s just like, I didn’t want to do that. It’s just like brings my energy down. The things like dealing with email that brings my energy down, things like that. Being dealing with loads of messages through social media, that brings my energy down.
Jane Frankland (00:50:17):
So it’s knowing what you’re good at knowing what you enjoy doing. And for me, I work on the basis. Like I said, that most people are, are better, better than me. So therefore it’s, it’s a very natural and enjoyable experience outsource it because you’re better than me. So you can do a better job than me, which is good because I need really good jobs to be done because that enables my business to be better. And for me to serve better, et cetera, et cetera. So that’s how I like to, to operate as a business that’s starting out or say with limited kind of money that is available chunks and things like that. Sometimes you have to look at it and kind of look at well, what can I outsource now? You know, what’s the pot of money now, where am I et cetera, et cetera.
Jane Frankland (00:51:04):
So for me, I’ve done a lot of things from starting up businesses by myself, but when the money has been there, it’s always been a case of, okay, great. What bits don’t I enjoy? What bits am I not good at? Can I outsource and immediately do that? So nowadays there are some great you know, you’ve got Elance or oDesk is all of these platforms available to you where you can go and you can give them projects and you can turn the tap on and off. So as opposed to, I’m going to employ you your full time or even your part time employee, there’s so much more available resource and ways of working for you to be able to engage and outsource your, your, your projects or assignments to, and I really love, love that. I like working with people in teams.
Jane Frankland (00:51:58):
So anyone that I bring on board and outsource, things like that too, I usually walk on the basis. You’re part my team. So I value them and treat them really, really well. All of my team are effectively suppliers, so outsource my work to suppliers. So in that way, but they are part of my team, you know, so I’m helping other small businesses to operate, which, which, which is brilliant. And it, I have so much joy in that. And most of my suppliers are women. So not all of my team are women. Most of them are women. Most are mums. So they’re finding their way and trying to walk so they can be mums to, to their kids and bring in, in, and things like that, which, which is important to me. So I’m helping them. So I do that right now what I have is I have a brilliant PA or VA.
Jane Frankland (00:52:51):
We have two actually. So one who works most, mostly for me and she’ll do a lot of my appointment bookings she’ll and that’s for my business and also for my kids and things like that. So I’ll, I’ll use hard to do things like that. Some little projects that she’s skilled in doing, I’ll get her to do doing work on that. If she’s not skilled at that, then I will call then another resource. So I can pull in someone else to do things like that for my personal branding program and influence program for women in demand 10 X, I’m using an agency. So I’ve gone out to an agency and they are doing so many brilliant things. It’s like really wonderful. So they’re doing my email campaigns and my sales campaigns. They do ads over Facebook. I’d say the Instagram, they’re testing it. They’re looking at the detail.
Jane Frankland (00:53:42):
They are really skilled at that. So I know how to do that, but I’m not skilled at that. So for me, it’s just like, great. You can do it. It’s over to you. And I’m so excited. Tell me what assets you need. So there might need a video or they might need you know, a masterclass. They might need a document, you know, so a PDF or whatever it is, I can get them that then they just make the magic happen. So it’s just great. So it keeps me really, it enables me to go out and create, create great programs, which I love doing create you know, serve my audience with, with posts, maybe with videos, you know, through my tribe and things like that. But essentially they can do all that backend stuff so they can integrate it with the software that I use and they’re experts at it so they can tweak it and go, okay, it’s like set it all up.
Jane Frankland (00:54:34):
This is going through here. The flow is going through here. They’ve said, yes. They’ve said, no, this is working. That’s not working. And then they can scale that. So it means I don’t have to be bothered with all of that. And I’m not skilled at that. And I don’t have to be skilled at that. I can keep being skilled at what I’m good at. There’s say three things are important writing and making program programs and serving and coaching and mentoring and listening and being attentive to my audience and hearing them and giving them what they want. You know? So that’s where being, being a bridge is, is really, and that facilitator and enabler is really one of my, one of my skills and in creating the awareness and that understanding and that’s through my voice and through my, through my talks and messages. So basically like I’m going to summarize, you use outsourcing to, to, to create the space for you to be more you.
Jane Frankland (00:55:34):
Yes, absolutely. For me to be more skilled that only you can do. So you can’t ask for a few, but you cannot force all the other tasks around you. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And it really is coming down to what are the, what are the tasks I need I could do. And yes, I could get someone, I could get someone to write for me. Absolutely. And people do, and people, you know, will have whether they call them shadow shutter writer, you know, all those writers goes. Right. All of that, that’s fine. But I like my voice to be my voice, you know, and I enjoy writing. So I, I, to me, it’s just like, no, that’s mine, I’m, I’m reasonably okay at it. And I want that to be mine and see with the programs again, it’s like bringing in all these different, again, I could get someone else to do my program. I could literally get someone to do the whole lot for me. And I would just be the face. Do you know that that’s entirely possible. But, but to me that also would be quite, almost like fraudulent is not honest, so there’s no integrity. You could quite easily do that. You know? So for me, there’s some things that I really want to do. And, and and you know, that’s why I keep those things, the writing and the program making, that’s just me. It’s just me doing that.
Debs Jenkins (00:56:50):
One of the things that I find really difficult and other people probably do is when you choose to delegate tasks. Oh, so what I do with my virtual assistant is cause I’m a really dreadful delegator. I like, I can do that faster. I’ll just do, I’ll just carry on doing it. Cause I was doing it before, is I pay her whether she does anything or not. And that forces me. That’s my constraint.
Jane Frankland (00:57:11):
Yes. That’s my, yes. Yes. Straight out your penalty is dependency, but it’s yeah. And yeah, there’s so many ways to do that. There even online tools that you can use. So if you don’t, if you commit to doing something, you can make that commitment. And then if you don’t, there’s the forfeit, the penalty, but I like it.
Debs Jenkins (00:57:38):
Okay. Right. Final question for you. Okay. I would really like to know one of the things like that fascinates me is, is doing new things. So when was the last time you did something for the first time
Jane Frankland (00:57:55):
She never wore that is, that is one of the hardest questions because it’s one of the hardest questions I’ve been asked because I really it’s been a long time since I did something completely new. I mean, I even during the pivot is just, I’ve got my inline roller blades out, you know, it’s just, I got them out. I’ve done that for like 20 odd years. So got them out and skating against like great. Who knew about the other day? Why aren’t you bought one exercise, hands on. Who’ve been for years, but actually doing something new. I can’t remember, you know, if, you know, writing the book was new, either that, that, that was new. But I really can’t remember, you know, there were, there were learning new tools that are new psych. That’s probably the last thing that I did. There was something new. But I feel that I, I feel that even saying that is not really a proper answer because it’s not like, yeah, I, I, I picked up a violin the other day and I learned how to play the violin. That was completely new. I’ve not done anything really new for a long, long time. And that is, that’s something that I will address because it’s just like, that’s, that’s it’s all great learning. Yeah. But, but actually doing something, doing something new keeps you sharp, enables you to go back to that. I’m a beginner and absolutely.
Debs Jenkins (00:59:32):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like it. And I find myself the reason why I started asking these questions to people because I find myself doing the same things every day had into a routine. And you know, I say, what’s your morning routine? What you, your routine I’m like routine rigidity. No, no, no. I need, I need input as well as routine. And that’s the chaos, the constraints to create. I find, I find that August only taking in the same stuff, forcing them through the same pipeline. So I’m trying to do new things, but okay.
Jane Frankland (01:00:04):
It’s yeah. I really like, it’s something that I am going to like look out. Okay. I need to do something brand new that I’ve not done before. Yeah. Not done before. Try it out. Yeah.
Debs Jenkins (01:00:15):
Tell us what it is. Okay. Is there anything I haven’t asked you that you want to tell us? No, it’s good. Okay. Fantastic. Now how do people get in touch with you? So, I mean the Haven program, talk to us about how we can get in touch with you.
Jane Frankland (01:00:29):
Yeah. best way. So LinkedIn, I would say LinkedIn, so connect, connect with me on LinkedIn. Some people think that they can just follow me on LinkedIn, but you can actually connect with me. So just reach out on LinkedIn. And my it’s my surname. So Jane Frankland, I keep it really simple. You can reach out there to connect. You can follow me if you want. You can follow me on Twitter. I’m on Instagram is Jane Frankland. It’s really simple. I’ve got a website which is Jane hyphen or Jane-Frankland.com. So those are the best ways for you to get in contact with me.
Debs Jenkins (01:01:06):
Okay. Fantastic. Thanks Jane, for all your attention today and we’ll speak soon. Okay.