Rintu Basu on Chaos to Creation Confessions: Are you suffering from an identity constraint?

Debs Jenkins (00:00:01):
Okay. So today we’re talking to Rintu Basu ring to accidentally wrote a best selling critically, critically acclaimed book on using NLP and hypnotically persuasive language in everyday life. And today’s going to tell us how he did that and how you can accidentally create results that are far more than just your goals. And I’ve got to tell you, I have been, so looking forward to speaking to you today, it’s been ages since we’ve spoken. Rintu tell us about your accidental bestseller and how you did it.
Rintu Basu (00:00:29):
Yeah. Okay. So the book is called The Persuasion Skills Black Book and it genuinely, it genuinely was an accident so much so that it was six months after I’ve written the book that it took my mate to tell me that I’ve written a book before I’d actually realized I’ve done it.
Debs Jenkins (00:00:49):
Explain that. So us more about that.
Rintu Basu (00:00:52):
Okay. So here’s how it happened. I’ve just put up a website for the NLP company and what we wanted to do was attract people to it and actually sign up the traditional way of getting picked to sign up onto an email list or anything like that is to you offer them something. That’s of some kind of value. So I went for ages trying to figure out something that I could offer NLP practitioners, master practitioners, and even people that knew nothing about, I know people that were just coming to have a search for stuff. What I could offer them that might be of some use to them. The full process of went through. It was kind of like, well, me as a guy, that’s done a law for a lot of NLP. What was it? What was the thing that I struggled with the most?
Rintu Basu (00:01:44):
What was the thing that other people struggled with the most? What can I do to help them? And I, I actually, personally, I didn’t struggle with the language and I loved it. I loved it from beginning to end. I thought it was great, but actually being steeped to the market, I knew that that’s the one thing that if you like most people entering into the field, struggle with lots of trainers complainant about how to deliver it. And there’s a lot of a lack of clarity and understanding of it. So I, well actually that’s, that, that to me is the ideal thing. I’m going to write a 10 week course and give it away for free. So a 10 week course, that is all just about how to use NLP language.
Debs Jenkins (00:02:33):
Can I just pause that a second? You were going to, you gave away 10 weeks of really valuable content for free, but you’re not afraid of doing that, that people just take your information, steal it. What, what were you thinking at the time?
Rintu Basu (00:02:46):
Oh, right. I have kind of different mentality to a lot of to a lot of trainers actually. It’s probably because I come from working in a company as a trainer. And what that kind of meant was that my responsibility is to give people the stuff that they need to enable them to do their jobs. So I, I didn’t have the luxury of being able to say, ah, yes, the answer to that is on my year, you know, is on the next course, which is going to cost you another a hundred bucks to get hold of my job was to actually give them the information. So my tendency is to is to give people what they want. So my natural instinct has always been, if you asked me how to do X, Y, Z, I will tell you rather than direct you to, of course that’s one side of it.
Rintu Basu (00:03:37):
The other side of it is I have a tendency to think the I I’m naturally creative. So, so to the idea that I’ve given away, you know, the best parts of the course is actually that’s, it’s not an issue. I create another one, you know, that there’s more problems to solve. There’s more things to do. So I don’t mind giving away material. The, the other side of this is I also have an idea that different mediums and different ways you learn things in different mediums in different ways. So I was quite happy at the time to give away a lot of information on the basis that it’s not all the information, you know, it’s an unpick looking at if it’s good enough, people are going to come back for more of it. When I did realize I’ve written a book I did have an issue about, well, once the book’s out there, then, then, then what do I do next? You know?
Rintu Basu (00:04:43):
But the reality of it, Oh, sorry. There’s a step before that once you’ve done the 10 week course, and six months later, I’d realized I’ve written a book and then we packaged it together. And I, I initially published it. Then I found you and Joe and we published it properly. And that sort of I was actually really concerned about whether people would buy it because, you know, it’s on the website for free. We’ve got round now quite, quite easily because we just had eat a bit you know, some more to it it’s more value to it. But the reality was all the people on the list were the first people to buy the book, that there was something a lot more tangible and immediate about it. And they, it wasn’t piecemeal in bits of, you know, website and stuff, and they had ownership of it. So I hadn’t really just researched the people would buy it anyway. You know, even people that had got in that respect,
Debs Jenkins (00:05:41):
I love this idea that, but the difference between a cognitive thing, that’s on the cue computer versus the thing that’s in your hands, the difference between something that you can see or hear. So all these different methods of delivering information, people are different and some of those wanted it in different modes. So not only did they want to embed Mo they actually wanted it in other modes that perhaps you didn’t think they wanted. I love that idea that I call that recycling or upcycling or reusing what, so don’t, once you’ve created something, don’t think that that’s the end of that creation process. Talk to us more about that because that’s fascinating.
Rintu Basu (00:06:25):
Yeah. I mean I’m looking at it at the moment cause that’s I I’ve written volumes and volumes of, of material, you know, just articles on this site and the other. And I’m looking at the moment of taking all of that and repositioning in, in all sorts of different directions. The reality of it is that I originally created all of that material, firstly, for getting prominence on the website, you know, for search engine optimization, keywords and all, all that technical stuff. It was written for that, but it also has to be readable and it also has to be accessible. And it also asks that give the reader something. So it’s all really valuable content in that respect. So why not strip all of that strip all the technicalities out and create it’s a book or, you know, other free giveaways or bonuses to courses and this repositioning all of that material.
Rintu Basu (00:07:22):
This is really kind of ownable. The good thing for me is and I think this is important really. It’s like, it’s about playing to your strengths. I I’m I’m a creator. I am much better with if you like a blank piece of paper writing something again, rather than taking something that I’ve already done and trying to find different ways of actually using it. That to me is it’s not difficult, but, but it’s not, it’s not what I do if, if that makes sense, you know, it’s not my, it’s not my strength. So my intention is to get all of that stuff and give it to someone else and say, look, don’t reposition it, repurpose it, you know smooth over so that it makes a sensible book or whatever, because where, where I am with is like, if I will, I will be faster, more efficient if I just took it all in rewrote. It, which obviously isn’t doesn’t make any sense because it’s already there, you know, giving the material to someone else, getting them to do it would be, would make a lot sense. Yeah.
Debs Jenkins (00:08:32):
Sorry. I’m so bossy. I’ve got two points I want to bring up there because there were two things that really important one is I am a creator taking on that mantle of I’m a creator, I’m an author, I’m a writer. Is that a different mindset too? I am creating, or I’m doing a bit of creation or I’m doing a bit of writing music different for you.
Rintu Basu (00:08:54):
Yes, absolutely. Totally. That’s it for me, there’s a, there’s a hierarchy of stuff going on. Okay. I can do things I can drive a car. I can do the shopping. I, I can do the cooking. That’s wildly different to saying I’m a cook or I’m a driver identity level stuff. For me, it’s the difference is when, when you make something, your identity, you cannot help but perform behavior in that identity, if that makes sense. So I have an identity about being a trainer, for example. So my natural instinct is to go and be able to deconstruct what what people are doing and then put it back together again, to teach someone else to do that. That’s what I do, you know, it, and I can’t, I can’t not do that. You know? It’s the same about the whole linguistic element. I mean, when I when I first found NLP I fell in love with the whole language linguistic element of it. And the time I was doing language, you know, how I am now is like, it’s just part of me. I cannot not do language, you know? So yes, it really makes a fundamental difference.
Debs Jenkins (00:10:26):
But was there like a crossover period? So you, you were training and then you were a trainer was the request that, did you notice this change where you were creative and then you were a creator? Was there a noticeable change
Rintu Basu (00:10:42):
In terms of training? Yes, there was. But it actually happened with the becoming of, of that statement. I am a trainer and a lot earlier than I actually had the skills to be a trainer. Oh, that’s interesting. And I think actually that’s that that’s actually kind of self-fulfilling in all of this, so I would, I would recommend and suggest this to everyone is make the statement, even if you don’t believe it yet, or you don’t think that you have the skills yet, because it’s what will drive you to get the skills, you know, the if you, if you turn around and say, I am training it’s not necessarily a driver to be a better trainer. It’s not necessarily a driver to get the skills you’re just doing the job. If that makes sense. When you turn around and say, I am a trainer you you’ll then put in this, there’s this cognitive dissonance that there’s a difference between who you think you are and the skills that you’re portraying and your natural tendency is to actually expand your skills too, to accommodate your identity.
Rintu Basu (00:11:59):
If that makes sense. Yeah. Can I get, can I give you a a bigger example of, of some of the issues that are around this? So for many years before I accidentally wrote a book lots of people had encouraged me to write the book. And I had always said, I can’t, I don’t, I don’t know how, I don’t think I have all the I don’t think I have the momentum. I don’t think I have the knowledge. I don’t have all this. I don’t know. It’s a whole bunch of excuses and all of it was patently, not true. I mean, but, but, but at the time people were encouraging for me to write a book. I was already very skilled as a trainer. Part of being a trainer is to be able to develop course material, you know, and I was very good at it.
Rintu Basu (00:12:52):
So if I’ve actually looked at my previous volumes of work, I’ve written massives of, of course, material, it, just put it all together and call it a book. It would be it’s a book, you know? But because I didn’t have that identity because I didn’t think about it and that kind of on that kind of level. I the belief perhaps running was I can write books and I firmly believe that if I’d known that I was writing a book, when I started, I wouldn’t have, I wouldn’t have finished it, you know, because all of those beliefs and all that, that would have just totally got in the way,
Debs Jenkins (00:13:34):
I call these identity constraints and I call it. So I believe in this idea of, we’ve got a lot of chaos going in and I had, we lead in order to create something. We need to go through constraints, but we also have constraints put upon us. And the constraints that we put upon ourselves and an identity constraint as your, this identity thing is I’m not able to do that. I feel a failure or a I’m an impostor. I think that is that identity constraint is what stops lots of people from creating from getting to that creation stage.
Rintu Basu (00:14:07):
I absolutely completely agree with you. I mean, the bizarre thing is like what I’ve done the first one. And again, it took me, someone at a talk, someone else pointing out the fact that I’ve done it for me to read. So I’ve done it. But as soon as the thumbnail, the bubble, the bubble popped and I kind of went, Oh, wow, I’ve really have written a book. And guess what? I’ve written so much on the website. I’ve got another book. Oh, and guess what? I’ve created so many courses on so many different things. Each one of those is a book. You know, I kind of went from not believing that I could be an author to, as soon as I’d realized that I was the only thing that was stopping me was actually the physical type of doing all the typically capital you’ve talked, taught.
Debs Jenkins (00:14:53):
So you actually saw yourself in a different light by changing your identity, that you saw yourself in the work you’d already done in a different way.
Rintu Basu (00:15:01):
Yup. Yup, absolutely. And it was a very instantaneous thing. I can tell you exactly what it was was was when we first saw the book on Amazon and I have been name on it and I was just going like that, you know, because I have both, it was at that point where I had both identities struggling, you know, I had the old one, I’m not an author. And then a new one looking at this book. Oh, that’s your name on that? Yeah, so I, I actually remember that, that struggle. And I remember not being able to sleep that night cause I guess I just thought like I’ve actually written all of these books. I just need to get them out of my fingers, you know?
Debs Jenkins (00:15:50):
Okay. That leads me into my second question, which is this typically topic it’s like, you’ve got all this content, you’ve got all these ideas and then you’ve got this constraint of there’s only so many hours in the day. And you mentioned earlier that finding maybe I don’t know how you want to call it, but outsourcing finding an expert, finding somebody that you can delegate responsibility to, to take that information. How do you manage that? Because lots of people are afraid to delegate. Well, how do you do that? How do you move things?
Rintu Basu (00:16:22):
Okay, well the short answer is I happened, but let me, let me flip back. Let me flip that around for a moment. I, I don’t, well, some say now from some point I haven’t actually haven’t actually done it yet. I don’t, I don’t feel that that’s kind of like a challenge. I’ll tell you why. I mean, part of it’s the backstop of having experience of how of you know, managing and leading teams is anything different from that? The thing that I noticed is watching other people is, and I think this will be the biggest issue for me is actually letting go of my baby. You know what I mean? I’ve got very solid idea of how you would want it done. Yeah. And the reality is that if it’s a creative process, then the chances of me having it done the way that I want it done is not going to happen.
Rintu Basu (00:17:34):
Yeah. So what I’m looking for then is a collaboration. I want to what do I do that sort of stuff? What I want to do sorry, let me explain the other one first. If it isn’t a creative process is just a system that that’s easy, I’m good at writing systems and putting those constraints on and you just give it to someone and go, that’s what I want you to do. And you just need to, you know, check it as I go through that. It needs to be very clear, concise instructions, you know, but if it’s a creative process now I’ve got a mate, who’s a a script writer at the moment and I’m watching him go through this process. Cause he’s writing these, there are only five, 10 minute scripts and they’re going off to be workshopped. And then there’s a director and actors and and a couple of them have now been produced.
Rintu Basu (00:18:26):
So there’s a producer revolt. And it’s painful watching him actually have to separate from his, from his, prior to it becoming a collaborative thing. And what’s created. And what would, that is something that’s different than way bigger than the original script. So again, I’ll be looking for in all of this is to take on someone that has something to contribute themselves. Now I don’t necessarily know what that is now. It might be that they’re specialists in the same subject, or it might be, they’re just a good editor, you know, for example. But whatever it is for people looking to put their own creativity in it, and I will stand back from that to allow them to, for them to do the process the difficulty is, is actually going to be to going back and looking at it as it fits and actually being objective enough to say, well, cause that made it better.
Debs Jenkins (00:19:32):
Yeah. Yeah. And you’d call it the pain of watching for your script writer, friend. The pain is of, of that that collaboration changing it beyond an easy, better, that’s the, you know, how’d you work that out? How are you going to do that?
Rintu Basu (00:19:47):
To be honest, I think I think I’m going to need to remove myself remove myself from the process. I think that decision is actually probably better made by someone else. I’ve seen this with with my spirit brought to front, but some, some of it, some of the stuff that’s come out is enormously better than the original script. The script will get good to start with. That’s why they’re doing it, but actually they’ve added so much more to it. There’s a couple where and I’m tracking on my own experience rather rather than, than my friends in that I looked at the script and I saw it a certain way and then I’ve seen what’s come out and I can, she did, I wouldn’t have done that with it. To be fair, to, to be fair to my friend for the most part he’s gone actually that I I’d never thought about it that way.
Rintu Basu (00:20:39):
And it’s quite clever. It’s quite neat. He said a couple of times he said, well, I wouldn’t have done that. You know, so I can that there’s places where it’s not entirely convinced. But most of the time it’s been, we’ve not had one where, where the reverse has gone now that’s awful or, you know, or anything like that. We’ve both gone through, you know, I’m not convinced that I would have done that with it, but but I think the bottom line of that is as a as a creator you’re, you’re not actually creating, I am creating an, I am writing for myself, but actually it’s there is a purpose to this and that’s about your audience. So, you know, maybe it needs to be a choice or a decision from that. I again, this is something we’ll be looking at in the future.
Rintu Basu (00:21:44):
It’s about having you know, peaks testers and test audiences and having readers and making in fact, if I jump ahead, this is something that one of the things that was really, really good when we did it, when I didn’t realize I was writing a book was the, because it’s coming up as a 10 week course, and I was only a week ahead of the people that were reading it at times. It, it did two things, one the fear of, of making sure I got the next year. I mean, that’s huge man motivation, knowing that you’re, you’re you’re a week in front of 2000 people screaming screening for the next budget, but also what it meant was that you can then incorporate all the feedback. I was thriving on that I was loving every minute about, you know, where people were saying, well, you didn’t talk about this and you haven’t done that, but I didn’t understand this. And you could, you know, so the whole thing was evolving as we went. I really wanted to replicate that. I, I’m not quite sure of the mechanisms for doing it. I think Patrion might be, might be one method for doing that sort of stuff. Or if I’ve got a, I’d love to have a bunch of beta readers who are, I don’t get the finished book too, but I actually give a chapter at a time and then evolve the whole thing as you go.
Debs Jenkins (00:23:13):
I love this idea of I’m rephrasing it now, is this just in time creation? So rather than create and give it like as a gift to the I’ve made this for you just in time creation so that you can continually bring that feedback in and go through the process much faster. And that is really good because when you know who the audience is, that’s how you can make sure that the, that it’s fit for purpose, you know, is the thing going, creating fit for the purpose it needs to achieve?
Rintu Basu (00:23:43):
Yeah, absolutely. This is coming from, for me, it’s coming from I I’m a trainer, you know, so and if you’re not there for me, there’s two parts to this whole training thing. I’ve I over simplify it. There’s the actual lesson design and the creation of the actual course and about what you’re trying to get across to you or to your delegates, your audience, there’s one side that’s about that. And that’s okay. I can walk into a classroom with all of that, but actually it doesn’t mean anything if it doesn’t go into the heads of your audience. And I think where we’re trying to actually really properly out value, you said, you know, if it’s just about the content, well, once I’ve designed the course, I can just give it to them and let them read it. That’s the end of it. But what do I think a trainer adds value it’s actually taking that class and those people, and actually taking the content and making it match their needs now, very good environment, but it requires feedback to do. And I think what if I’m writing material that’s for is the that direct feedback, or really kind of want them to be able to see or hear and be able to listen to what I’m saying. So I know that they get it. Does that make sense?
Debs Jenkins (00:25:30):
Yeah, it really does. And I think the feedback process depends on where you want to use it, but the feedback process can make the product, the theme, the creation multiple times better than it could possibly be with that, that feedback. I call it a minimum valuable asset. So you create something that’s the minimum. It can be, that’s valuable for the reader. And that is an asset to you. I’ve lost you. I’ve lost you you’re back.
Rintu Basu (00:26:06):
Yeah, I’m here.
Debs Jenkins (00:26:09):
Okay. Okay, fantastic. I’m gonna clap again so that I know where to do the clap team. Okay. So I think having that feedback and getting feedback loops, going through the process and designing feedback into your process, into your creative system. I think he’s, I don’t think you can do it without feedback and not create something that people really need and love.
Rintu Basu (00:26:35):
Yeah. Yeah.
Debs Jenkins (00:26:38):
Don’t tell us now. Cause they’re like, so he created this 10 week course you gave so much stuff and value away free your friend identified that you’d already written the equivalent of a book. You went through the process of turning that into a book. How did you become a bestseller? What happened next?
Rintu Basu (00:26:57):
Yeah, this was all just a catalog beginning. So so we packaged it all up and put it, put it all together. W I, by that time, we, the list was maybe five or 6,000 strong. Cause it, it, it doesn’t sound like a huge list, but it was massively responsive because I was constantly talking to them and it was a, a subject that’s, you know, that, that serves thing after to so the short answer was, it was actually quite simple, but it was really kind of an accident. I was very honest with them and I didn’t actually expect them any of them to buy it, but, you know, when we launched it so for weeks beforehand, I said, look, I was saying to him, I’m launching the book on Amazon. But I don’t want you to go and buy it until this one particular day.
Rintu Basu (00:28:02):
But please note, it only has a few little bits extra than what you’ve already. I mean, I totally understand if you don’t, if you don’t want to buy it. But I would like, you know, I’d like a review I’d like this I’d like that on that one particular day. And if you do buy it, here’s what I’m going to do because I’ve got all these, this bonus stuff packaged up ready for you. You know, so I think our bill some audio video stuff just takes things that are in the book and expands them a bit further. And this is kind of, kind of what I mean about the idea about giving stuff away. I don’t, I don’t want them, you know, I mean if I’ve got everything that’s in the book there’s all sorts of stuff that you can add on to that, you know, what that could easily be another book or a and something else, or it can be another giveaway for buying the book, you know, it’s on your list. So that’s kind of what we did. I have no idea how many people were actually going to go and buy the book over on that day. Just, I’m still surprised that that happened.
Debs Jenkins (00:29:18):
It was a phenomenal success. And I think, I just want to reflect back to you. I think that it was so successful because of your integrity with the group. So you were honest with them, you told them what you were doing. You told them what they were getting, and you told them that the vast majority of the content they already read and that honesty and integrity, you actually had created a group of people who were real true fans and of you, and that, that love that they devoured everything you said and provided.
Rintu Basu (00:29:48):
Yeah. yeah, you’re, you’re up to right. You know, this essentially kind of gets me about a lot of, a lot of marketers. I don’t know how many of those, those kinds of instant creation products you you’ve seen. The ones that really get me are the ones that they scrape public content off the internet and automatically collect, collate them together. And then you can just throw it out as a, as a book without naming any names. I’ve seen ones where where I’ve been on a webinar where we’re in the space of an hour, they’ve collated public domain content from all sorts of different places slapped it together in a book and upload it, uploaded it onto Amazon. To my mind, the, the problem with all of that is the relationship you’re creating with your customer is awful. I mean, you might make five bucks on a book that no one, no one is ever going to read. And if you stuff again, and they’re on this constant troll of, of, if you’re not scamming people more or less, that’s how they might say it differently and see differently. But that to my mind, that’s actually what it is. There’s no real value in it.
Debs Jenkins (00:31:06):
And the difference between what you did is you created an audience, you created what they needed, and then every time you created anything, new, your audience brought it up and wanted it. Whereas these scandals scammers, but every time they have to create, and it will just because they’ve damaged the trust, the damage, the relationship, and the hardest bit, in my opinion, is creating that following is creating the people who are interested in what you’ve got to say. So if you’ve damaged that trust every single time, you’ve got to start again from zero. So I would prefer your, I much prefer your route.
Rintu Basu (00:31:38):
Yeah, yeah. To be honest, I dunno. I suppose again, it’s an identity thing. I don’t think it’s any effort at all, really. I mean, it’s stuff that I enjoy doing. It’s, there’s a real, there’s a real boost in helping people, you know, I mean, when people send, you send me most about helped with this out and the other world they’ve got a new job or, you know, and this sort of stuff, it makes me feel good. It’s it creates a drive and a motivation to actually do some do more of it. And yeah, I’ve I think I was doing a, a fair bit of this in not so I start off with a book, so, you know, five to $10, it’s a low value thing and go through several different stages that lead up to, to face to face courses are hugely expensive.
Rintu Basu (00:32:34):
You know? Now the reality is that not everyone wants all of, not everyone could afford all of that, so on and so forth. But if you’ve got up, come on the funnel people who will progress up it because they see the value in what you’re doing. And the reality is that the people that I am, that’s how I find new clients. Not just absolutely brilliant, because they’ve been through everything else of yours and they’re still with you because they, you know, and they’re paying even more money to be with you because they see the value of view. I mean, that’s that, that’s massive.
Debs Jenkins (00:33:12):
Yeah. Yeah. And you, the word you use there as well is if you were having to think of it as a pipeline or funnel or whatever it is, but if you add value every stage, then that’s, that’s the genius, you know, giving stuff away that was adding value. Then you turn that into a book that was adding value. It gave them a different way of reading it. And you gave them the bonuses then that you added value with the relationship with your constant communication, regular extra information. You added value when you create a courses specifically for them, cause you were listening to what they were saying and what their problems were. And I think that adding value every step of the process is what leads people to the top of funnels. Not a brilliant sales page is necessarily not a, you know, it’s the value, the value all the way through that process.
Rintu Basu (00:33:55):
Yeah. Absolutely
Debs Jenkins (00:33:56):
Building relationships. I’m going to tell him to change tack I’m like that. If you, if you could go back and give yourself some feedback what would you tell yourself from 10 of Pat on the covers? He’s anyway, it was about 15 years ago. Wasn’t it? I mean like when are we talking about, I can’t remember.
Rintu Basu (00:34:15):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s about 10, 10, 10 years ago.
Debs Jenkins (00:34:23):
Yeah. So if you could give you 10 years ago, self some advice, what would you have told him?
Rintu Basu (00:34:30):
Mmm. That’s not an interesting one. I think probably what, what, what I want to tell himself is to actually just get on and do it. I mean, there’s, it’s the doubts and the lack of belief that was that was always the issue. And this it’s about having faith in yourself. Okay. So here’s the thing, all of that was created from, from nothing. And what was, what stopped that happening happening earlier was a belief that I couldn’t do it, but the reality is what I started. I have no idea what I was doing. It just happened now. Since then, it’s easier for me to do those things because I’ve, I’ve now already done it and I know I can do it. Okay. But there’s so many things that I, that I haven’t done and I’m not the, that I know that I do, even though I’ve never done them, you know?
Rintu Basu (00:35:41):
So I there’s a lot of it that I don’t know, I don’t know now how to do, but I have enough confidence to say that I find a way for me again, now I’m starting to come a little bit more into my own about pain, about this identity statement, about being, I am a creator. I used to, it’s actually a fairly recent change in changing the way that I in my identity my belief I used to, in fact, I still do see myself as a problem solver, you know great finding solutions to things. The, the good side of that is you can’t, I mean, you can phase me, but you can’t stop me. You know, if you can be a problem, I will worry my way around it or throw it or over it or under, I will find, I will find the way, but the downside of it is you have to have a problem to stop.
Rintu Basu (00:36:46):
If I don’t have a problem, I don’t do anything. So that’s the issue with problem solver end of it. But what I’ve come to see myself as is the flip side of that is that I’m the creator. I create stuff, which is, you know, the, if you like the forward looking part of that it’s taken a while for me to get there. A lot of it has come from, from rotting in the right from writing that book. I, I became an author, but from then to I’ve started going, well, I,
Rintu Basu (00:37:32):
I’m not just an author, like create stuff, whether it’s systems or processes, whether it’s you know, like that process for creating 70 articles in a day. And that sort of stuff. I have seen that as well, actually at the time we did it, I did see it as a problem. It was an intellectual challenge to go. Right. do you remember that story? Because I think this is fascinating. Go for it. Okay. So I was talking to Joe and he was, he wanted some marketing articles to, to market the book. And I said, well, how many? And he laughing and he said, well, it’s funny. I said, well, what was that? 50? Is it 30? Is how many? And he just said 70.
Rintu Basu (00:38:29):
So I said, okay, I’ll have him with you for tomorrow. No, obviously I was joking as well. Okay. So I’m finished the call and I went, well, I mean, I’ve said it though. I mean, I mean, Joe knows I was messing up. I know it messes it up. Wonder if you could, so I spent the rest of the day working out, how am I do that? And it was actually really straightforward when I’d actually started thinking about thinking about this from a process perspective. Okay. So what’s marketing articles the highlight the book. So, so for different markets. So when, right. Okay. Well, let me take a process. That’s in the book, but let me take a language pattern or something that’s in the book that I can apply to lots of different things. So I’ve got that, that, that that’s now when I can apply it to lots of, lots of things, then all I need are those 70 markets or there’s 70 people that would apply to.
Rintu Basu (00:39:40):
And then all I need to do is fix it the front and the back, the phone and that context. So that person reading that, that, that article would go, ah, this is how this will apply to me. And at the end part, but in a well now go off and do something about it, and this is what you can expect to get. So now I’m just topping and tailing that article with a thing in the middle. So now it’s just a process. So actually most of that most of the day was nothing more than looking for 70 people that that process was appropriate to literally it turns into fulfilling the blink suit. So if you put all the articles side by side, you know, that they’re all the same, you know, but the re the reality of that though, is any individual that, that might, that particular article is aimed at, will stay as unique to them, you know? So there’s two sides to that. At the time I was doing, I was a problem solver and I was a a writer. Okay. But now we’ll look at it and go, actually, I really am creative because what I’ve done is create a process for doing a specific thing. And even more than that, I’m now going. Right. Okay. So how else could I use that process as a solution to all of the things that’s another level of creativity above that, does that kinda make sense? It
Debs Jenkins (00:41:03):
Absolutely makes sense. And I love this idea of creating processes because I’m on the, on, I’m an engineer. So my whole life, I’m very creative person, but my whole life thinks about systems and processes. And how can I organize that and arrange that? And what are the inputs? What are the outputs, what happens in the middle? So all, I think thinking systems and processes, my look, the idea of topping and tailing and article that would then create multiple articles, because as you, each individual who has a problem and finds the article will find that unique version of the 70 articles, but then the cherry on your cake then is how do you use that process for other processes? And it ties back to what you said earlier, which is you can outsource or delegate if you put it into a process. So now you can not only be creative, you can actually be a hugely creative and create a lot of things quite quickly, because you’ve created a process to manage that creation. So talk to me about that. So how have you, how have you reused that’s that process that you came up with?
Rintu Basu (00:42:16):
To be honest, it winds up it depends on what level you, you look at this cause a lot of it is a lot of it is a conceptual thing. Okay. So I, I’m going a fair way into, into, into starting to write fiction or, well, I haven’t yet, but I, but I’m going to, it’s already happened. So I’ve actually started analyzing authors. Now I think just to speak with him, I don’t mean this as a one of my most favorite authors is Terry Pratchett. And he’s, I’m fairly sure he writes faster than I can read or write faster than I could read it at a time when he was coming here. There’s a lot that this world stuff I was going to, I couldn’t keep up with it, but the reality is it’s all formula now.
Rintu Basu (00:43:21):
And I don’t say that in a bad way because even the worst of his books, I like the formula, you know, there is this, there’s not a book that he’s, there’s not a disc that he’s written that I haven’t liked. There have been some that I like enormously. And there are some that I don’t like as much, even though it’s worse, worst, I like formula, but his best, they are athlete athlete. Brilliant, even though it’s a formula. So my point here is that he’s actually done exactly the same thing as I’m doing with an article he’s topped in Colby for specific type of person with specific kind of reader interest. So, you know, Hey all the search and find stuff and girl Scouts and the Watchman and all of that helped. I’m an ex copper. I love it, you know, and that’s why I love it.
Rintu Basu (00:44:18):
You know? So it’s just, it’s as straightforward as that. The malt and the whole death stuff really, really speaks to me. I’m not a huge of her, of running weather works and the witches and stuff, you know, I, I still like them. I still have enjoyed reading them, but they’re not, they’re not my books, whereas God Scouts is more, is that, you know but actually when you think construct the whole thing, that it’s a formula, you know, it’s just to it. So I’m starting to see and there’s a couple of other I’m starting to analyze and that kind of way then, then no way, no way, but they do a very similar kind of thing. Whereas Terry Pratchett created a world and then he, he populated with those characters who created the stores, that there were other secrete series of books that were all about the same group of people. If you like. There’s a guy called Steve Hicks who, who again, is write faster than I can read. And he’s there’s one series of currencies created that are they just remind me of Scooby, do you know, it’s a Scooby carrying in a different context. And again I love them because they just remind me of Scooby, you know,
Debs Jenkins (00:45:48):
So where are you leading with the snap? So where are you going with this idea of writing fiction? Cause w what are you planning on doing
Rintu Basu (00:45:57):
Well? I, I want to create a whole bunch of fiction. I’ve got a couple of series books in my head. Again, I actually, I, I don’t know how famous he is. Jim butcher and how he dressed. No he created a it’s all open fiction. It’s about I was a private eye in Chicago. He’s actually quite, quite big. And I think we’re on, I think he’s just about to release book 17 and it talks to the guy’s history from, from where he starts as a private investigator. And he’s a magician as well, but a very underpowered magician all the way from now, we’re into book 17 where he’s he’s now in a night of ferry court, he’s been dead twice. And you know, he, he’s, he’s an exceptionally powerful being in his own world and it takes you kind of part of his life, you know?
Debs Jenkins (00:47:17):
So you can see his gross and the arc of the character growing and literally taking on more skills and more abilities. Yeah. Yeah.
Rintu Basu (00:47:26):
There’s a whole change in development in, in him, but each book, each book you can read independently you know, that, that, that they don’t have to be, you don’t have to read them in order. You don’t have to read them as terrorists. And I really, really like that idea. So I’ve got the idea of a couple of characters in various settings and actually looking at them right away through the whole period of my life. So I’ve already got that and I, I haven’t got the formula. Yeah. Because I think I need to write the book to have that formula properly set down. So I’ve got, but just in my head well, sorry, I’ve got two of those in my head in two different kind of contexts. If I’ll come back to, to the nonfiction world the thing, that’s the thing that’s that, that happened to me with that first book is it gave me the, the model or formula for writing others for other books. So I’ve got a few more to write and they will, we’ll follow, we’ll follow the model of the book. I’d like you to actually follow what, what happened with that book and, you know, the feedback loops and people be and find the content that is regarded by some feedback from it and stuff. So it works in fiction and nonfiction. And here’s me confidently saying that without ever having written a fiction novel,
Debs Jenkins (00:49:05):
Because you’re able to now extrapolate from having the experience once you’re now able to extrapolate the formula and then to, to almost predict the outcome and the success, because if you do the same steps, you can almost predict, I love that idea. That’s the best thing. That’s the beauty of processes and systems that, you know, sticks to feed go through the process, the right things, but at the end. So, yeah, I love that idea.
Rintu Basu (00:49:36):
Yeah. And it’s I mean, we could, for me, it goes in two directions. There’s one about the granular detail of it. And so we could actually just create the next book, do it replicate exactly the process and we use last time and it would work. I have no doubt about that. And that’s fine that, that, that if you like, is, is, is partly my problem solver kind of mentality towards this is a, is a, like, it’s just a thing to overcome. We can do that. There’s conceptual element to it, which is, which is where the way I think now in terms of creation is how else can I apply that to something else? And that doesn’t necessarily mean taking the granular detail of it, but conceptually I’m doing exactly the same thing. You know, it’s chunk above that. I don’t necessarily know that it would work in exactly the same way as it did the first time. But what I do know is that it work on some level or other and creative enough to tweak it once it has to make it work the way that it should in that market without context or ever, you know, that’s,
Debs Jenkins (00:50:55):
So it’s an interesting approach as well, because you’re actually, as you’re, you’re building the machine that has your, as you’re going through the process for the next time and the next time, the next time you’re, you’re building the machine even better each time. And I think some processes as well, do have a decay element to them. So they might’ve worked perfectly once now, maybe an element doesn’t work so well. So what, how do you update that element or yet, so it’s all, it’s that constant iteration and seeing what’s happening and and responding to the signals that you see.
Rintu Basu (00:51:31):
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s an interesting it’s, it’s, it’s an interesting point cause I come from an engineering background as well. So that’s obviously why, you know, a lot of this is coming from one of the things that I noticed that changed in me from being at university and studying this sort of stuff to being out in the real world and actually doing stuff that is in university. My idea was the processes and systems, and that were kind of like frozen in place. They were static things once you’ve created them, then that was it. Whereas as soon as you’re out in industry, you actually, this is a life thing, you know, it’s constantly evolving and changing and growing and responding to its environment. And that’s as an engineer, that’s, you need to be part of that. You can’t just make it and expect it to continue that way forever. The rest of the world changes.
Debs Jenkins (00:52:38):
Okay. I’m going to start closing us down a little bit. I’m afraid I’m probably going to invite you back and we’ll talk about some other things in the future. Okay. So my favorite question in the world at the moment, and I keep asking everybody based on driving people mad, but I’m going to ask you anyway, when was the last time you did something for the first time?
Rintu Basu (00:53:01):
I’ve got lots of different answers to that, but let me give you the most simple for the minute. Okay. I’m a massive role player. I love playing role playing games in lots of stuff. So I have been empty doing this stuff online, being face to face and we’ve had you know, so I have several roll rock language in Glasgow. We used to meet on a regular basis and then COVID-19 came down and so that’s cut all of that out. So we’ve gone online, running, running games. I didn’t like the idea but it was either that or not. And I’m finding actually I quite enjoy it.
Rintu Basu (00:53:54):
I don’t think I, I think I’m always going to have, I think I’ll prefer playing face to face, but I play these games really for a social element and there’s a lot of before and after, and, you know stuff that crosstalk across tables and everything that you, you’re not going to get online. But what I’m finding online is like, it’s easier to set up games. It’s easier to appear. There’s so one particular group that we played regularly, we used to play regularly in the physical world. I don’t think we’re going to go back to that. Or at least not for a long time, just a couple of people, a couple of people in the group are vulnerable, so they’re going to be shooting for a lot longer than the rest of us. And another member of the group has just had to the first daughter, you know, now and they can still play, you know whereas physically going somewhere to play the game.
Rintu Basu (00:55:05):
And of course, if you’ve got, if you’ve got a young child and child in the house having, you know, four or five other people turn up and making lots of noise just that just at the point my dad put the baby to bed, probably not the best thing, you know, online, it works fine. Oh, sorry. But in terms of actually playing both as a monster and as a, as a role player, it takes a certain a certain ethical, there’s a different way of playing. Cause you need to give people space and time and not overtalk each other the way that you want. That’s that sort of stuff. But for me, particularly as a geo storyteller I’m taking one of the reasons why I’m actually pretty good at being a GM is because I’m a hypnotist because I am a storyteller because that’s because there’s language in particular ways around the table, I’m relearning all of that stuff for an online game, which is quite interesting.
Debs Jenkins (00:56:04):
Yeah. And I think it’s interesting that the pandemic kind of forced you into doing something that you weren’t keen on doing in the first place.
Rintu Basu (00:56:15):
Yeah. And again, I haven’t done this yet, but it’s a whole, I’ll set a new doors. You see, I’ve got a few like that I used to play with, you know, 10, 15 years ago that moved away from Glasgow, ideally love. And we’ve not for a long, long time because they’re not hearing it. So why don’t we play? We can connect you to the, you know, one of them now in America, there’s a couple actually in, in in Norfolk. So and not, there’s no reason not to. And you know, it just occurred to me. Well, a few weeks ago that the only thing that was stopping that happening was the fact that I was going, I don’t think I’ve tried it it’s, you know, so that’s if you’re after the last thing I really didn’t knew is that but then, you know, that’s not a thing. So I’m kind of doing mainly centered around sort of like my parents of the last few years.
Debs Jenkins (00:57:28):
Well, are you going to be working on next, talk to us about what’s happening for you next? What’s your, what’s your next big creation that we can look out for?
Rintu Basu (00:57:37):
Okay. This shit, this shit. Because of all the stuff that’s happened to me over the last five years that centers around my parents I was using a lot of that and writing it all up on, on Facebook
Debs Jenkins (00:57:53):
To, to entertain me hugely. I mean, I enjoy following what, perhaps the only person on Facebook, who I actively look for every single week, sorry, family and friends, but Rintu is the person I look for first every morning. Tell me another installment in the crazy life of Rintu.
Rintu Basu (00:58:13):
So lots of people have been asking me to write write that up. And so I, I have been I mean for the last couple of months, I’ve been working quite hard to put in all the, all the Facebook posts together, collecting them and found I haven’t quite got enough. And then some, when I start thinking about this, this is quite I went through quite a thought process about it. I decided that I is, is five years worth of interesting stuff. There’s quite a lot of memoirs and and ups and downs, and it’s been quite funny and all that sort of stuff. So I wanted to write it from the perspective of Facebook posts. So it is just my life from on Facebook. I’m taking out all the political stuff and all the swearing pocketing it down a little bit more. But then I, so I’ve been reading a lot of stuff about how about writing memoirs and those sorts of things. And one of the biggest things that I’ve caught from it all is the the best memoirs are actually proper stories.
Rintu Basu (00:59:24):
And then that took me to this place where I go like, actually, this is a real challenge. I’ve got to write more material because there’s actually not enough Facebook posts to do it. And there’s bits. Because I was writing it up on social media. There’s things that you don’t put on social media there’s stuff. And because you only see one thing every few days, it doesn’t actually tell a connected story. So I need some more to connect all the dots and make sure that the reader actually sees what the C but the the thing that I certainly worked, it popped into my head a few weeks ago. It was like, if I’m doing all of that and I need to make it into a proper story, then maybe I need to use story template, some clotting, proper plotting and the hero’s journey. And it’s kind of like a reverse reverse issue from a normal author in the normally an author would go and plot stuff to make it work. Now, what I’ve got is I’ve actually got all the content. I need to work out how to present that so that they still real, but turn it into a, a prop that does what a plop does.
Rintu Basu (01:00:38):
Oh, well this is, this should have been my answer to what I’ve been doing differently. Okay. So what I, what I, what I’ve actually had to do is separate myself from myself and go the character of me in this story. What’s their theme, what they developed, what was the challenge they overcame you know, and I’ve, I’ve actually had to look at myself as a character within the story and ask kind of the questions that you would ask about a character. Oh my gosh, that’s really cool. How has he changed as a result of what he’s gone through?
Rintu Basu (01:01:21):
And so there’s part of me that wants to also write this up. And again, this is the creation end of it. And what’s write this up as personal development process, because, you know, I’m not sure about I’ve of trenched. I have changed my perspective of me, but doing, but, you know, I am, I’m different looking at myself and that kind of way. And I think one of the things we’re struggling with is with this as a book is like, it’s a different audience. It’s not my normal thing. And how do I draw them in as well? And I’m thinking one of the bonuses for this, this is actually going to be, you know, if you’re interested in personal development and an opiate and all those sorts of things, so log on here and you get, and I’ll give you the things that have actually happened to me as a, as a result of using the processes that aren’t, you know, properly written up in the, in the book.
Debs Jenkins (01:02:23):
So you add in like layers, layers and layers of X. So there’ll be the story layer, and then you can have the NLP layer, so you can deconstruct the Oh, fantastic. So that’s value at different, like in a matrix of value.
Rintu Basu (01:02:38):
Yeah. and it, it applies to if you like different audiences now. So, so I mean, there’s people that would just combine this for the story. There are people that may well buy it because the kind of pick the, on the story. Yeah. So, so it is a lot different now. I mean, I always had planned to put some of the NLP stuff in there, you know, I mean, I did it I did a lot of pain relief and hypnosis kind of work with my mom. But I actually tried that with my dad, but spectacularly. Oh my gosh. So I was planning to put some of that in the book, but quite light touch. Cause so then, you know, I don’t want to burden a reader. That’s going for the story, just the technical end of this. And it only occurred to me a couple of weeks ago and I was what I was thinking about the change that’s happened to me as a result of thinking myself as a character in that story. That’s actually a whole level of volume of material that’s worth writing up.
Debs Jenkins (01:03:50):
I think the personal development side of writing a memoir, even if nobody ever read it, I had a midlife crisis about six years ago, just threw my life into the air and got divorced. Like everything changed and writing it down as it was going along, even though it was only for me actually helped me understand myself better. And I could see myself on the journey and knowing the hero’s journey and knowing the arc of the hero’s journey. It gave me hope that I knew that that soon I would come out of the other and I would be a different person. Then I didn’t have to panic right now that I didn’t have to worry by it now that it was just a journey and it took all the pain out, but that was sort of the writing process and that, that internal thinking it through rather than panicking it through.
Rintu Basu (01:04:41):
Yeah. Yeah. yes. I love that. I mean, that’s, that’s actually a lot of what I’ve done, what I’ve done over the years. Literally on Facebook there was, there’s part of it. I’ll tell you why, again, it’s about solutions to issues. When my mum was diagnosed with cancer one of the things that I wanted to do was keep everyone updated us to where we were with it. You know, I’ve got a lot of very well meaning, but nosy family who wants to know the ins and outs of everything very early on, I was getting really fed up and writing the same thing to them again and again and again. So I said to more, I’m going to put it on Facebook, or, I mean, obviously I had my mom’s permission to do that. I said I was going to put it all on Facebook so that you can just go and look, you know, you don’t have to keep coming to me.
Rintu Basu (01:05:38):
And then the first thing that occurred to me with that was, well, actually, if I’ll just write out what’s happening, it’s real dull reading and it’s quite a motive and it’s, it’s not, it’s not pleasant reading now. I’m not sure that I even want to share that. So I got into that thing of going well, how do I make this interesting? How do I make it funny? How do I, how do I change this? So engage people in it rather than just, you know we went to the doctor and he gave us bad news. This is affecting people a lot. And so that’s kind of what again, a flip side, but at the time that I started doing it, I didn’t realize that this would happen. But by the fact that I’ve forced myself into a position where I’m trying to make this interesting or engaging or funny or an all of that, it forced me into looking at everything from a completely different perspective. And it really, really me, I mean, that’s where we’re a lot more resilience sculptural.
Debs Jenkins (01:06:47):
Yeah. Yeah. I can understand that. I think you’ve probably saved your family as well, and you certainly entertained your friends. You know, your, your stories, you have a wonderful way of looking at the world and bringing out the uniqueness in every single person and every single event. You know, I am fascinated by your writing style and fascinated by your life. You know, I love how you you’re able to do that. And what I’d like to do now though, is I’d like us to follow to close down, but in the next episode, cause I think we should do another one in a couple of weeks time. I want to talk more about the hero’s journey. And I want to talk more about because lots of people are interested in that and using it for arts and I’m using it with some people to write their nonfiction books using the hero’s journey. So I would love to talk first to have a conversation about hero’s journey and where we both, you know, these cycles of the hero’s journey. So let’s save that for the next time, but for right now, how can people get in touch with you? How can they follow you on Facebook? I can make by the, by your book watch, how do you want them to contact you?
Rintu Basu (01:07:55):
Okay. buying the books easy, you just got promises by. I think I’ve given you a link of mine.
Debs Jenkins (01:08:02):
I’ll put a link in the comments. Yep.
Rintu Basu (01:08:05):
So that’s the easiest way to get hold of anything like that or on Facebook or you just need to do is circle me on Facebook actually. I’m on so there’s, I I’ve got Facebook pages for the persuasion skills black book for [inaudible] and there was a third one, but those two were probably probably ones that I use. I am I am on Twitter persuasion skills. The but I’m not on Twitter at the moment. I haven’t the accounts are still active, but I, I don’t, I don’t tweet, I haven’t, I haven’t for five years almost because I have to focus on one in one place. And the one that I chose was Facebook. So but I will be going back in the next in the next few months. So if I’m eventually the website will come back, but if you, if you, if you find me on Facebook, I’ll tell you when the website’s back backup.
Debs Jenkins (01:09:15):
Brilliant. Okay. So thank you so much for your time and let’s definitely be talking about the hero’s journey. Is there anything I haven’t asked you that you want to tell us just to finish up?
Rintu Basu (01:09:29):
Not that I can think of at the moment, although I
Debs Jenkins (01:09:39):
Fantastic. Right. I’m going to stop recording now and then we can.